I’m going to be building a detached garage in the near future, but am somewhat confused as to the height of the framed walls.
The typical stud length is 92-1/4″, soleplate is 1-1/2″ and the two top plates total 3″. This adds up to 96-3/4″ or 8′-3/4″.
The question is when I go to sheathe this wall with a standard 4’x8′ sheet of OSB, I am going to be left with an gap of 3/4″. This doesn’t seem right? Do I place this gap at the top or bottom?, or do I cut the stud length by 3/4″?
Thanks
GregS
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Replies
Greg, nothing to stress about. Judging by your question I assume that you are building this for yourself. You have several easy fixes. Since your garage is free-standing and you don't need to match plate height with an existing portion of your house, then yes, you can cut that 3/4" off your studs but I wouldn't. Too much work for nothing.
Sheathe your walls from the bottom up and leave it short the 3/4" on top. This will probably be hidden in your soffit, no? If this doesn't suit you, keep it off the bottom plate to avoid wicking water off the slab and into your wall system...maybe a better choice! Or best yet, leave it 3/8" from the bottom and 3/8" short on the top and have the best of both worlds.
Good luck and have a ball! Welcome to breaktime and be sure to stick around, everyone here is pretty dang helpful and alot can be learned just from lurking about.
Greg-
studs were designed for the inside ceiling height.
minus 1/2" for ceiling drywall put up first
two sheets of 4x8 drywall applied horizontal
leaves 1/4" at bottom.
You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
greg.. the most important thing about garage wall hts is the door wall..
standard garage door is 9' w x 7' h.... plus apx. 14" for standard overhead door hardware..... so minimum of 8'-2" above the contact point on the garage slab where the door will close to..
if you are using some other type of door... then you can use a different ht., but most gargages need MORE than 8' to function well
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Amen.
Use full eight foot studs.
Lap the sheathing down beyond the bottom plate 1/2" at bottom.
Now we have a nice five inches to worry about sheathing. That is worth the while.
I like to build garage walls with 8" block silll plate to get things up out of the water, A garage never seems to have enough headroom..
Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin's right, put in a row of block you won't regret it. Do what Mike suggests and figure out your finished door height, and work up from there with your finished jamb material, headers and plates.
On another note, standard stud length is 92-5/8" That makes the finished wall height 8' 1-1/8th" high. Install the sheathing flush with the bottom of the bottom plate.
I agree with what woodtick said...place the sheathing flush with the bottom of the bottom plate. As this is a detached garage, I'm assuming this is a slab floor. To help you keep the plywood straight, drive a pair of 16d or 12d nails about 3' apart down each wall, between the bottom of the bottom plate and the slab, so you can sit the plywood down on each pair and not have to hold each sheet up as you tack it off. the bottom line is, you have to be able to nail the plywood to the bottom plate and the top plate; nailing into the cap (or double) plate is not required; it is expected the clips (Simpson ties) will extend from the roof framing members to the lower top plate.
BTW if you don't aready have a nail gun or framing stapler, now would be a good excuse, um I mean, time to get one...Trying to nail plywood on walls by hand while keeping each sheet straight is a pain--at the very least rent a cordless nailer; you'll thank me later. :-)Jason Pharez Construction
Mobile, Alabama
General Carpentry, Home Repairs, and Remodeling
When quality is your only consideration
As Piff and Mike said, a little extra headroom in the garage is a blessing you'll appreciate for years to come. Frame it with full 8 footers, add a row or two of block as a mud sill, and then buy your sheathing in 9x4 sheets instead of 8x4.
By the way, except for the sheer wall, you don't need OSB to sheath a garage; Black-Joe is sufficient, a lot cheaper, and a lot more weather resistant while you're waiting to get the siding on it. If you don't gyprock the inside, run 1x4's as diagonal cross bracing on all the walls.
Do make sure the sheer walls around the door are properly framed and sheathed with structural sheathing, though; otherwise the whole thing can rack and collapse.
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
If he doesn't use plywood sheating, he has to use diagonal bracing to meet building code requirements. Most codes require corner bracing and bracing every 16' of an exterior wall.
Dave
That's basically what I said, I think. Code here (Canada) is a bit more generous in that respect than I would have written it: Black joe outside and gyprock inside is considered okay and you can skip the diagonal bracing. I like a minimum of OSB sheathing and prefer plywood, personally.
I have framed a few walls strictly by the code; black joe and gyprock and no bracing--and they haven't fallen down and show no signs of wanting to. But if I can persuade the HO to pop for the extra bucks and use wood sheathing instead of cardboard, I'm happier....
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
Define "black joe".
Is it considered a structural component? My first thought was that it was the old asphalt impregnated insulation board we use to call "gyp lap." A lot fo house were sheathed with that stuff, but it has very little, if any, structural value as wall bracing.
Current residential code in KY calls for sheathing panels at the corners and at least every 16' of exterior wall, or the equivalent in wood or metal diagonal bracing let into the framing. Your diagonal bracing would pass the this requirement here, but the old insul board would not.
Dave
You're right; what we call "Black Joe" is basically tarred cardboard, ½" thick. It's pretty weatherproof; a lot of houses built by individuals get left in strapped Black Joe over a winter, sometimes two.
I agree with your evaluation of its structural value (low). However, last time I looked at that part of the NBCC (a while ago, two or three years) an exterior wall sheathed in B.J. on the outside and gyprock on the inside was considered structural and did not require additional bracing except for special circumstances (high seismic activity zones, etc). If the wall was not sheathed with gyprock as a minimum on the interior, then diagonal bracing was required.
What this means to me is that some engineers have run the numbers and decided it's safe. Not that I don't trust engineers, but my belly button tells me to put a little more beef in my buildings. I hate callbacks...
...especially when they tell you it just fell down....
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
Lately, since the price of OSB has went up, I have been seeing more and more of the "black joe". Most framers still put OSB at the corners and other intermediate points. I ran in to a house the other week that was done completely in the BJ. I asked a friend who was building a house of mine across the street about it and he said that the Building Inspectors approve it if properly nailed. If I remember correctly he said every 3 inches around the edges and 6 inches up the studs. I loaned my codes out to my lumber salesman, so I haven't looked it up yet. We are in a 90 m.p.h. area FYI.
That seems like alot of nails. Apparently the framers are using the coil nailers for the installation.
Personally I would at least install a diagonal brace in the wall.
I agree about the diagonal brace, definitely. 1x3 is cheap insurance. Best installation of the bracing is to dado the edges of the studs ¾" deep to let the brace into them.
You do need to use a lot of nails on the BJ; roofing nails are best hence the guys using coil nailers. Don't cheap out and use 1¼" nails; go for the 2".
If you tack on your housewrap and then strap the outside for framing, the whole job is pretty well weatherproof for a good spell. You can safely leave it over the winter and then do your siding in the spring when you won't be tempted to rush it because your hands are falling off from the cold....
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
Edited 12/7/2003 10:31:40 PM ET by Dinosaur
Reading all the comments on sheathing makes me want to ask what experience people have had with a framing system our company uses - Cladmate SM on 2x6 studs at 24" o/c, with metal windbracing let in to the studs and tying top to bottom plates. Even after 4 years of building this way, I remain unconvinced that I'd ever build myself a house using that system. The siding guys sure don't like it much, expecially when putting on their corner trim for vinyl. Local building codes allow it, obviously, and the company sells this system to clients all the time, even for fairly upscale houses. I don't doubt that it is structurally sound, and the extra R5 of insulation doesn't hurt here in Ontario where -25 C is not uncommon in January. But I'd still want some plywood on my own house; wouldn't you?! By the way, all the talk of hurricane ties is fascinating - I've never seen one; builders here just attach the roof trusses to the wall plate using 3 or 4 spikes. Must be enough as the code doesn't require more, and you seldom hear of a roof being blown off. We don't get hurricanes in Ontario, although the odd tornado does blow our way sometimes.
Gerry,
You frame your walls 24" o/c?
Here in NJ we frame 16" o/c and never use any wind braces or any form of straps, we just frame the walls and nail 1/2" sheathing with a nail space between every row.
Joe Carola
that extra 3/4" in the future is going to make you wonder why you didn't use nine foot studs in the garage......dont fret bro....sheathe it like it needs to be sheathed
BE an extra 3/4" ; )~
andy
My life is my practice!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Depending on the stud length you end up with, look into getting a load of 4' x 9' sheathing. I always use plywood sheathing and have bought quite a bit of 9' and 10' stuff over the years, depending on the wall height. Ideally you can get from the bottom of the bottom plate to the top of the top plate in one sheet. If you choose to add small rips to make up a gap you're supposed to install blocking at the joints between the sheets so that all edges of the plywood are fully nailed.
I was reading you post and noticed you said your studs were 92 1/4", but here in midwest (MO) our pc studs are 92 5/8" I did not think their would be a difference with stud length throughout the country. So did anybody else notice this?
I thought the 92 1/4" stud height was odd too. I'm in MA and the three common stud lengths are 88", 92 5/8", and 104 5/8".
I have been building in the south east part of the country for the past few years where most of our ceiling heights are 9 to 10 feet, but when I lived out west (California) the pc studs were 92 1/4. Worked out well as I remember.
They have just adopted the 2000 IBC here in Charleston last June. On the coast we have to block and shear nail the first course of plywood on the roof for truss or stick framing along with all the rest of the Simpson ties, H10's, Hd-8's to meet the 130 mph requirements. Is this common for the rest of the country?
What was once known to me as earthquake ties and clips have now become hurricane ties and clips.
Go figure!
The 92 1/4" must be a West Coast thing, because it's here in the Bay Area.
One thing I have noticed here in the south east is they leave a very large gap at the base of the wall from the extra 3/8" by installing the sheets from the top of the wall down.
The reason I keep getting is they don't want water to wick up the sheetrock. This would be OK if you planned for severe leaks in your house, but it causes a problem when installing base molding.
Here in Ohio we like that gap at the bottom of the drywall. Drywall sheets have tappered edges and if you set your base trim against this taper your base will tip in at the bottom. We cut small blocks from scraps on the miter saw and set them in that gap between the drywall and the floor to catch the bottom of the base. The base looks better and the inside corners fit with no gaps at the bottom of the base . Some trim carpenters tell me its to much work but the end results are what I'm after.
I like 1/2 to 5/8 inch gap max at the bottom. Any more than that I ask for the the hangers to split the difference between the two sheets and fill it when bedding the joint with tape.
The other way around the taper at the bottom when the sheet is installed horizontally so you don't have to rip extra material is to stand the boards "up" hanging them vertically. This gives you a flat surface for the base.
I understood it to be that you sheath a wall from the bottom, so that the sheet will end up being 1-1/8" short. (That is with a 8'-8 5/8" Stud or a 9'-8 5/8" Stud). Because you only have a single plate on bottom and you have a double plate on top. The 1-1/8" on top will give you room for your birds mouth rafter cut to clear the decking. This way your rafters will be tight against the wall framing. However, if the roof pitch is to steep then the rafter will still hit. When this happens we will lower the decking down about 1/2" (when applicable) so that it won't hit.
new codes require positive ties of sill to foundation, band joist to sill, shoe to studs, studs to plates, rafters to plates...
a lot of this can be correctly done with your plywood sheathing... but leaving a gap at the plates defeats thisMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
They way that I am talking about does not defeat the continuous tie. There is no gap. The sheeting is a little short, but does not create a gap. I have never seen a code that differentiates between the upper top plate and the lower top plate. As long as the sheeting is adequately nailed into one of the top plates then it satisfies the code. When I said that the sheeting was 1-1/8" short, I only meant from the top of the wall. It still covers the remaining 1-7/8". Now if you are continuing down past the bottom plate to catch the floor along with the wall, then you have to do different, but here we mostly use conc. slabs so we do not sheet below the bottom plate.
no... the plywood sheathing ties the upper top plate to the lower top plate....
if it isn't tied.. then your rafters tieing to the top plate are almost useless in high wind conditions.. if you use hurricane ties between the rafters and the top plate... the entire top plate will pull off without the plywood tie......OR .. you have to strap the upper plate to the lower plate... the nails thru the upper plate into the lower plate will not have enough withdrawal resistance to keep the roof from unzipping..
there HAS to be a continuous tie from the foundation to the ridge.. and the easiest way to tie the wall section is with the plywood sheathingMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
If you start the OSB (or other sheeting) from the top then you will only have 3/8" overlap on your "single" bottom plate. First of all any of this only matters in the area that have over 20 p.s.f. uplift on the roof. In these areas it is mandated that you have hurricane straps on every rafter. All of the straps that I have seen when properly installed would have 4 nails in the upper top plate and 2 nails in the lower top plate. This would connect the two plates. Plus you have 3/8" of the OSB overlapping the upper top plate which could be nailed in the worst parts of the country.
Another thing is... have you ever tried to seperate the top plates once they are nailed. I guarantee you that being properly nailed that they would meet the any min. requirements for uplift pressure. The greatest initial uplift pressure happens near the middle of the roof and not at the plate. The purlins are a bigger and often overlooked part of storm damage prevention.
Also you brought up the ridge. This is where most failure is theorized to occur. Most building officials worry way to much about the plate and not about the ridge. Have you ever seen a video of a house's structure failing during a hurricane. The roof always opens up at the ridge, and the plate just acts as a hindge.
I do agree that being able to nail from the very top to the very bottom is best, but until they start making OSB 8'-1 5/8", I believe that the best place to have it short is the top where you have the lower top plate to nail into.
hmmmm.....i'll get back to you on this oneMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I want to thank everyone that has responded to my post. I have learned from each one of you.
This being my first post, I'm now just starting to learn how to ask specific questions in this forum.
I guess the main reason I asked this question is because I built a similiar project before in a high wind area. I ended up sheathing the walls to overlap the bottom plate by about 3/4", and by doing so the top plate was isolated from the rest of the structure. Not soon after, their were winds up to 95 m.p.h. The (cap) top plate started to seperate from the lower top plate. I had used simpson h-1 hurricane ties to attach the roof trusses, but these ties didn't extend far enough below the lower top plate to make a difference. I finally ended up putting 1/2"x5" bolts 4'-0" o.c. through the top plates.
Thanking God that I made it through this wind storm, I became a firm believer in trying all framing materials to the sheathing. (with plenty of nails)
This being said, starting my next project, I think I have to use a 4'x9' sheet of material, and waste about 8" off every sheet, or think about leaving a larger gap at the top plates, and use longer hurricane ties, which may preclude sheathing the walls before the roof trusses are in place?
Thanks to everyone again,
GregS
greg... most of our walls do NOT work out with 8' plywood... for one thing we also have 2d floors to tie in..
since the new code.. i've laid out with rips.. so the 1st rip goes from the plate to about 20" up the stud.... then a full sheet goes rom there to about 16" onto the studs for the 2d floor...
i believe this is detailed in the UBC.. but i don't have it here so i'm just talking from memory..
be careful though because you still need a full sheet vertical at the corners for racking resistance..
our wind zone is 100 MPH if i remember.. could be 110 ..i'd look it up like i sayMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike, you beat me too it again.
That wind is something else. Last night it blew over the portapotty, and took a small pile of Dow 1-1/2" sheets from under several 6x6s and made pretty little blue decorations on the lot out of them..
Excellence is its own reward!
92 5/8 works fine for strapped ceilings, leaves just a bit at the bottom. And Dinosaur, quelq`un t`a promis d`justice?
or sheathe horizontally and rip filler strips.
Excellence is its own reward!
I agree in principle, Mike, but I thought the typical H2.5 with the longer end of the tie down putting two tico nails into the lower top plate was sufficient. No?
I've sure passed lots of inspections with the H2.5s done that way.
Edited to say that I see I'm asking pretty much the same thing as Kyle...
Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a carpenter to build one.
Edited 12/5/2003 8:40:13 PM ET by Hasbeen
don't know... i plow my way out of here tomorrow, i'll go down to the office and take a lookMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Plow? Are you lucky enough to have snow?!?! We haven't gotten but one inch twice... It's starting to bug me, and I still don't have my roof dried in! Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a carpenter to build one.