Replies

1. 
   mike_maines | Feb 02, 2008 09:48pm | #1

   Well, 2' o.c. uses one stud for every two feet, plus one to start, and additional at openings.

   16" o.c. uses three studs every four feet, plus one to start, and additional at openings.

2. 
   RedfordHenry | Feb 02, 2008 10:00pm | #2

    

   For 2' spacing, it's (Length of wall in inches/24)+1.  Same for 16" spacing, just divide by 16.  This of course doesn't consider plates, blocking, jacks, cripples, corners, waste, culls, etc.  For actual estimating in typical situations, I use one stud/lf of wall x 10%, plus plates, that usually gets you enough materials to get you thru the first couple of days.

   Sorry, I mean't to say "plus 10%"

   
   

   ---

   Edited 2/2/2008 2:29 pm ET by RedfordHenry

1. 
   JTC1 | Feb 02, 2008 10:08pm | #3

   >>....that usually gets you enough materials to get you thru the first couple of days.<<

   Had to chuckle at that - I thought it was just me.

   Jim Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.

3. 
   Jim_Allen | Feb 04, 2008 12:38am | #4

   For 16" oc the formula that works every time is one stud per foot of wall. If you have 250' of wall, order 250 studs.

   You will never have any left.

   Bob's next test date: 12/10/07

1. 
   Nick25 | Feb 04, 2008 02:39am | #6

   I've worked for guys to many times that have been doing the formula of .75 * lin ft. + 1 on either end. It's true, you always end up short. If you include, throwing some away b/c they are to twisted or warped, bracing, smaller pieces ect. Point Loads. Many of the windows we've built in the last few years have called one king stud and two jacks. Thats six extra studs/ window put two or three of those on a wall and you are short.

1. 
   bridge_dog | Feb 04, 2008 02:55am | #8

   .75 rule always worked for me. Of corse I always factor openings and buc's first than use the .75 rule. Thats the way they teach in estimating classes. Not saying Jim's way is wrong. I just have never run short using this method, the trick is knowing how to frame a wall.

2. 
   pinko | Feb 04, 2008 04:00am | #9

   Hey Jim, that's the formula I've always used too...w/ the same results (you never have any left). Recently, though, I framed a small (600s.f.) guest house w/ 145 l.f. of walls. Found I was short by about 20 studs (bought 145--had very few culls). The formula then worked out to about 1.15 studs/l.f. Ya think, like most 'footage-formulas', the stud calc. might break down at some minimum size?

3. 
   DoRight | Feb 11, 2008 08:16pm | #22

   If you use that formula and you "NEVER HAVE ANY LEFT", then your formula is not very good or useful, ya?  LOL!  I am guessing that what you guys are saying is, don't worry too much just get a bunch of studs and then near the end of framing count the number needed and go get them.

1. 
   Jim_Allen | Feb 11, 2008 09:01pm | #25

   "If you use that formula and you "NEVER HAVE ANY LEFT", then your formula is not very good or useful, ya? LOL! I am guessing that what you guys are saying is, don't worry too much just get a bunch of studs and then near the end of framing count the number needed and go get them. "Actually, it means something other than your interpretation. It means that the actual number of studs is probably less than one stud per foot but the "extra" studs come in handy some other place and are never "wasted". It is rare that there will be ten or twenty left over to ship back along with the other materials. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07

1. 
   Nick25 | Feb 12, 2008 06:27am | #32

   I usually end up cutting the last few up for blocking, If I still have some left I can always build a teepee, or a kickass sawhorse.

4. 
   hvtrimguy | Feb 12, 2008 06:39am | #33

   when I order a framing load, I order more than I expect to need, then if there are actually any left, I return them on the next delivery. Seems studs get used up much faster than you would think."it aint the work I mind,
   It's the feeling of falling further behind."Bozini Latinihttp://www.ingrainedwoodworking.com

4. 
   Matt | Feb 04, 2008 01:27am | #5

   I do it the way Jim does it, only I use either 1.125 or 1.25 studs per foot depending on the house.  Running back to the store to get another 30 studs gets very old.    99% of the walls we frame are 16" OC.

5. 
   bridge_dog | Feb 04, 2008 02:45am | #7

   For 16" O.C. multiply langth of wall by .75 + 1 for the end + any for wall buc's and openings.

   For 2' O.C. divide length of wall by 2' + one for the end + wall buc's and openings

6. 
   Gene_Davis | Feb 04, 2008 04:05am | #10

   24" centers, the factor is 0.5 studs per foot of wall.

   For 16" centers, the factor changes to 0.75.

   I then take 3 x (no. of corners) plus 5 x (no. of window or door openings) and add that to what I got from above.

   Then I add 10 percent.

   Corners and opening counts can skew a takeoff, as you can see.  There is no simple "per foot of wall" figure.

   If your supplier likes you, delivers when you snap your fingers, and quickly picks up all the stuff you cull out, you can just forget the takeoff and order a unit or two at a time, watch the pile, and call for more when needed.  Send back what you don't use.  Easy.

1. 
   Matt | Feb 04, 2008 06:35am | #11

   Here is the problem with ordering more than a little extra lumber:  The size of the trash pile is proportional to the amount of extra lumber that is ordered.  OK - maybe not if the guy who is paying for the lumber is also the guy who is running the framing crew and writing their checks... 

   Regarding >> If your supplier likes you, delivers when you snap your fingers... << I get priority treatment from my main building supply, but still the fastest they have ever been able to get lumber to me is 4 hours, and more often, the next morning.  I mean they only have 30 or 40 delivery trucks... Framing crews I use can easily go through a bunk of 2x4s or more in a day, so by the time the above times have expired, they are POed and have gone home or to another  job...  It's life in the city...

2. 
   Jim_Allen | Feb 05, 2008 06:12am | #12

   "There is no simple "per foot of wall" figure."Yes there is: it's 1 per foot. You don't have to factor anything else, it will all work out. Where do the extra studs go? There aren't any extra. My computer program will show every stud at every opening and pt load and corner and if I use that figure I will be short. I've already proven that. Where does it all go? Lots of places and it's all necessary. I'm a very efficient framer by any standards and I ALWAYS have enough studs to temporarily use them for truss bracing at the rate of one stud for every two trusses on small sets and on stud per truss for large sets. I then use those same studs for my roof kickers when I'm laying the plywood. I then use the kickers for the third time on the punchlist items. One per foot works. If you still have five studs left over, send them back.....you won't have five new studs unless you've used substandard lumber for other applications. Sloppy crews will not be able to get done using the one per foot rule. 50% or more of the crews I scrutinized could not finish a normal custom home without ordering an extra 100 studs. When the lumber guys would send them out automatically for our crews, they'd have a stack of 100 to be sent back. Incidently, I NEVER USE A STUD for anything other than studs. That means that I never cut a stud for headers, sills or plates. I will use studs for cripples studs and jacks but not for horizontal members. Ever. I also don't use #3 plate stock for stud applications. The reason: it's easy to "waste" fifty studs per job in non stud applications, then be forced to cut plate stock at the end of the job which triples or quadruples the time it takes to insert one simple punchlist stud at the end of the job. Nothing smokes me more than quadrupling the time for a component needlessly. That's my retirement that they are wasting.... Bob's next test date: 12/10/07

1. 
   DoRight | Feb 11, 2008 08:23pm | #23

   Jim, you say you don't use studs for headers, which brings up a good question, what do you buy to cut your headers and miscellaneous components?  Secondly, is part of your reasoning not to use studs for horizontal members, because studs are often white woods and not of a stronger structural grade?

1. 
   Jim_Allen | Feb 11, 2008 09:15pm | #26

   Stud grade is a stronger and more expensive grade. The price difference is slight but is significant when collectively tallied over a lifetime. In my experience with lumber packages, I found that if I was dilligent about using studs only for stud required parts, I would finish the job and have thirty or forty left over during the final few days of punchlist work duties. This simple act sped up the punchlist duties simply because it eliminated the wasteful requirement of measuring the studs and cutting them. How much time does it take to find a need for thirty or forty studs, then measure and cut them out of longer stock. In my apprentice days, I used to see all the oldtimers doing a lot of this during punchlist days. I would then think about all the times I saw them using studs for horizontal applications instead of cutting plate stock. I saw that as a huge waste of time and energy.There are a lot of guys who think they are being resourceful by grabbing a 92 5/8" and whacking it for a 7' plate stock. Often, they feel they are saving material by whacking a stud in half for a 45" set of plates or they will use them as filler on header stock etc. To me, that is a huge shortsighted waste of time. To demonstrate how anal I am about this issue: I would climb down the stairs from the second deck to load 16' plate stock to cut an 8" block rather than use one stud and hack it up. It's just my mindset. I want to get to the end of the frame without calling the lumber company for studs and I want to have studs for every part that requires them. This thought process has served me well in the "end game" of framing. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07

1. 
   DoRight | Feb 11, 2008 10:58pm | #27

   Jim, thanks for your replies.

   It is true that Rafter stock is typically of the highest grade for it's structural strength (What is it?  D  Fir and Larch - Select or better - don't recall).  And clearly plate stock requires little fi any structural strenght.  Then studs, since they are in use for compression, they don't ahve to be of the same high grade as rafters.  So, is there really that much difference in teh grade between plate and studs.

   Ok, make it easy.  What are teh grades you use for plates, studs, floor joist and rafters?

2. 
   Jim_Allen | Feb 12, 2008 01:52am | #28

   Typically, we worked with precuts. They clearly are all stamped "stud grade" which is a higher grade than #2 which is allowed for stud use. Stud grade has superior vertical loading strength. Our plate stock would come out construction grade or better, or #3 or better. Those grades typcially included a lot of less than desireable stock that would not be suitable for studs. Sometimes there would be large knots, or loose knots or substandard density. The better builders insisted on the plate stocks to be a higher quality #2 or better which technically sufficed for stud stock. Those standards were often confusing when viewed from one supplier to another. Some lumber companies clearly had a better source of lumber and their #3 stuff was better than the other guys #2 stuff. This made things all very confusing. The one thing that was never confusing was my insistence on getting to the last days with a supply of precuts instead of seeing them used all over the house for sills and plates and ledgers and lacers. FYI our region in MI had a very good supply of SPF materials and great Doug Fir and Hem fir products. Here in TX, they don't get any of this stuff and I now know why they use so much engineered materials here. We're switching. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07

3. 
   DoRight | Feb 12, 2008 02:10am | #29

   Jim, you also implied that you use your plate stock rather than stud stock for headers.  Now that does not seem right to me, as you desire strenght in your headers.

4. 
   rlrefalo | Feb 12, 2008 02:41am | #30

      I think he is talking about caps for the headers.

5. 
   Jim_Allen | Feb 12, 2008 05:31am | #31

   We make our none bearing headers out of plate stock. They are 2x4 on the flat with cripples. The cripples are out of "scrap". I don't toss anything out of the house that is 10" or longer because the typical cripple on a non bearing header is 10 1/8". I also use plate stock material for "filler" on bearing headers as needed. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07

6. 
   dovetail97128 | Feb 12, 2008 06:48am | #34

   ""Stud grade is a stronger and more expensive grade"" Than what ? I am not certain that is a correct statement. At least not by WWPA grading standards. Stud grade is based on it's use in vertical orientation ONLY and then only up to 10' in length I believe. I do not believe it is as high a grade as 2+ (std. and better) grade lumber which can by used in both vertical and horizontal applications. Notchman would know .
   They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.

3. 
   MikeSmith | Feb 05, 2008 06:27am | #13

   gene... when you get all done it will come out to 1 stud per lf...

   plus 3xlf ( shoe ,plate & double plate )  / 16' "

   even when furring ceilings @ 16" oc, it still comes out to  lf of width x  lf of run.... due to extra furring for partitions & blocking , etc

    

   Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

   Edited 2/4/2008 10:32 pm ET by MikeSmith

1. 
   dovetail97128 | Feb 05, 2008 06:44am | #14

   1 to a ft. for 16" o.c.
   1 to a ft. -20% for 2' o.c.
   They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.

2. 
   Jim_Allen | Feb 05, 2008 06:53am | #15

   I multiply four times the linear foot for plate stock. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07

1. 
   MikeSmith | Feb 05, 2008 06:57am | #16

   good factor...i think i'll bump my plate calcsMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

2. 
   Matt | Feb 08, 2008 06:52am | #19

   I was wondering when the plate stock Q was going to come up.  Actually, I use a factor of 5x LF wall = plate stock for truss houses - there is quite a bit of lateral bracing needed in the attic.  Also a fair amount is eaten up for dead wood.

   BTW - as far as your 1 stud per foot formula, you are really confusing these other guys and their good theories with your actual experience.  Now stop that!!! :-)

1. 
   Jim_Allen | Feb 08, 2008 07:24pm | #20

   Your 5x factor makes sense too but I add plate stock for specific tasks after I've sent out 4x for wall plates. For instance, I'll send out one foot of plater for every foot of cornice. I'll add plate for other specific components too. Your 5x method eliminates thinking about those specific things and our numbers probably come out the same. For truss lacing though, I order 1x4 or 1x6 utility stock. Chief will identify every stud and corner stud. They also show a cut list for cripple studs, so there is some manipulation of the generated list required. I think I just added fifty or a hundred studs to the list that Chief generated. I tried using the chief list and being conservative and Frank told me that he had to order lumber in every category. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07

2. 
   frammer52 | Feb 11, 2008 06:22pm | #21

   Jim, you might want to look into that. 1x4,1x6 lateral bracing.  Up here the truss people want nothing but 2x

3. 
   Jim_Allen | Feb 11, 2008 08:56pm | #24

   Every truss engineering program specifies all the different bracing according to their software or preferences. Typically, I put the exact bracing that each specification sheet dictates. If I don't have that particular piece of lumber left at that stage of the framing, I'll go one step heavier. I do not recall every seeing 2x4 lateral bracing specified on residential truss sets but that doesn't mean my memory is serving me well. I do know that every house we have framed over the last decade or two has required the truss engineering package to be onsite for the inspection by the BI and if 2x4 was specified, he would have failed us if we used anything less than that. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07

3. 
   Gene_Davis | Feb 05, 2008 03:06pm | #17

   You're right, Mike, when the job is 16 on center.  But we be 24 o.c. advocates up here.

   Doesn't Chief give you your count and cut list?

1. 
   MikeSmith | Feb 05, 2008 03:28pm | #18

   Chief will give you whatever you "build"..

    but that means you have to build framing  and set all the dbx's to represent what is actual

   sometimes i do that but  sometimes a wall/structure is just a pretty picture

   i use  the Chief material list to generate quantities , but they are still just estimated quantities with some aspects

   the thing is very accurate with the structures that are correctly drawn and  spec'd

   but the chances of inadvertantly leaving out components is always there...not because of the program, but because of me

   ever give a set of plans to your building supply company for a quote ?

   would you actually order off the list they generate ?   well, the Chief list is about the same thing...very accurate but limited to some assumptionsMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore