I recently received a recommendation to check out the Freewatt co-generation system to provide heat and electric for a 3000 sf custom home I will be starting this spring outside of Philadelphia. Curious whether anyone has had any experience or installed one of these systems. They are able to provide either hot air and hydronic heat.
http://www.climate-energy.com/
Thanks,
John
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I clicked on 7 pages of that site and got exactly zero information. Either it's snake oil or they need a new web designer. "Powered by Honda" doesn't tell me much. What are they burning?
Who recommended it?
CHP is a well-established concept. But no chance of my wading through the pap Freewatt offered to discover what their niche was.
Hmmm... your second post John, with no profile. Welcome to BT, unless you are Freewatt.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
I believe this is a co-gen system that uses a honda generator designed to run on propane. The gen works as usual (except its usually claimed that these are super clean running ICE's) then the engine is water cooled with this water going thru a heat exchanger to heat a tank of water for radiant floor heating and or domestic hot water heating.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Snake oil. I'm with VaTom on this.
BTW, Wall Street Journal had an article a few months ago on "technology" companies that are nothing more than fronts for a group of lawyers trying to get some sideline patents then suing the behesus out of anyone with anthing similar.
The following phrase taken from the website pretty much describes their purpose: 'Climate Energy has aggressively pursued protection of its intellectual property with regards to the technology and implementation of Micro-CHP systems in real world installations.
Like V'tom suspects, this is likely an ad, also suspect it was placed by an automated troll??
Certainly I don't know, why I asked the OP questions. OP has frequently returned to BT, but didn't respond. Gotta be suspicious when you open so many pages of a commercial site and find no meaningful information.
There's no way burning propane and recapturing waste heat is going to amortize the investment with a conventional engine.
Burning waste veggie oil, waste motor oil, biodiesel, or woodgas can. That's assuming you don't put a premium on your labor. Don't know anybody who's done it, but methane generation would work if you had the feedstock. Gotta burn something cheaper than propane.
Real interesting, that legal line you noticed. Lots of ways to make a living I guess. My parents stressed that it was important to do something productive.
The CHP I know of is all non-amortized avocation pursuit. Major maintenance on those systems. If somebody can come up with a tidy low-maintenance commercial unit that amortizes, there's a market. PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
but methane generation would work if you had the feedstock
Did that for an hombre who built a "vacation" home out next to the oil well he inherited. Railroad commission has a huge stack of forms for any use of "white gas" (methane from well head run through a condensor) that is "for profit." Equallt deep set of quintuplicate forms from TCEQ for venting or burning off the methane, too. It can cost more to have a vacuum truck draw offthe accumulated gas than it will sell for, too.
So, it can be interesting to find a legal use for the product. Runnng a generator is a slick answer, if limited to only a few locations.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Have an inlaw uncle that back in the 1970's had a gas well with above ground tanks to collect the white gas. He also the rights to use the Methane gas.
While driving a total distance of 90 miles to and from his job, he began dipping into the tanks and mixing their gas at a 50/50 mix with regular pump gas to keep the "Pinging" away... Some of his coworkers did with their oil/gas leases... He once said that when some of them got greedy and started using the stuff full strength, it cost them their car engines...
While hooked to the well, being in Texas, he had to add the "Stink" smell before it could be used for his home. He built a small hut with the vessel that metered the smell into the well gas. This procedure was a major task about every 3 months, not because of the work, but because of just being around the additive and that you didn't dare spill so much as a single drop. He'd say that the stuff was always kept sealed in the jugs it came in, but becaused he stored the stuff where the mixing vessel was, when the wind was out of the direction of the hut, the smell was really, really strong.
Eventually, when pressure dropped in the well, the leasing company came in a capped the well and disconnected his rights to use it...
Bill
Eventually, when pressure dropped in the well, the leasing company came in a capped the well
They may be back. Roberston Co looks like a pincushion from all the NG rigs poked into it. Not really new fields, but ones with economic problems, like being under the baseball field for Franklin High and the like. But, the gas is worth enough to pay for the inconvenience to people (royalty checks can smooth rough waters).Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Not that I'm a shill for these things but it is a real product produced by honda
http://www.hondanews.com/categories/1048
From what I've read it really only works up north where you have much more heating days than cooling days.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Doesn't real (as in having a net saving) co-generation have to be generated from a source that is already a viable purpose?
It seems like the "Honda" is there just for the co-generation. OK it does produce electricity. But running a small generator 24/7 isn't very efficient. It doesn't matter what it burns.
My DW has worked with energy companies that co-generate for tax purposes only.
Out in the middle of nowhere on a natural gas line they had a station that pumped it or cooled it something like that. They would run lines of huge engines that spun generators with shrouds around them to pull off heat. They didn't need the electricity or heat.
The whole thing was for a tax write off. Because they were co-generating.
These systems are run on natural gas. Lots of them in use in Japan and Europe. There are other manufacturers, mostly from, Europe. At least one from the States.
CHP is realistic technology available now, although the Climate Energy company seems to be a real slow start up, Been watching them for a couple years, still can't get the system outside the New England area.
I posted your Q over at heatinghelp.com
Here is what they said:
http://forums.invision.net/Index.cfm?CFApp=2&Message_ID=395560
reinvent,Thanks for taking the time to post this over at heatinghelp.com. Looks like a great site that I was not aware of. All I need now is someone to do the installation and final pricing from climate-energy. As this is going to be a LEED/GBI certified home this system is very worth looking into.Thanks again