I’m building a few sets of french doors… and the only way to make it work with what i have is to … build the jamb with one door fixed and hinge the other door off the fixed one…
here is what i have and have done… i have an inventory of 8ft wood doors … i’ve picked 2 that match… some are per mortised and some have been drilled for locks… so match’n up sets that will pair up was fun… these are going in 14″ 150yo all brick openings with cast iron headers I’ve already lined the openings with 2×6’s bringing them close to the rough openings i’ll need factoring in that sometimes “matching doors where one might be 32” and the other 34″…
the thresholds i have are the alum with the hardwoord ajustable insert (came 72″) i have a supply (limited so i need to be wise) of jamb stock routed for the push in weatherstrip…
figuring how wide the 2 doors will be…. cut my head jamb and threshold the correct size allowing for door clearance… the fixed door i leave at 96″ the operable door i cut 3/16″ shorter… on the jam i remove the adjustable wood part and cut it so that it will be fixed under the fixed door and will still adjust under the operable side… screw and glue my jamb together… install my weather strip… lay in the tight fitting fixed door (pre primed on all edges) keeping the weatherstrip compressed the same as if it was operable… i screw the jamb into the door all the way around (placed a thin foam stick on gasket at the bottom for a seal) with this done it keeps my jamb square…
now the part i’m doing that i have never done before… I’m hinge’n the operable door right off the fixed door… no astrical (sp) just a 2degree bevel on the door… and the strike on the jamb… this will (should allow the door to fully open onto the fixed door…
i know i have to address the weather strip issue between the 2 doors where they mate… and i have a few options i think will work and look ok…
anyone ever done this? will i have issues? what am i not seeing? i’m using four 4″ hinges… these doors will see very little use… but are in bedrooms so they have to operate… i have about 20 sets of these to do… and the 8ft astricals would have added $70 to each set… it was just $1400 i didn’t want/think i needed to spend… looked online and saw many situations where they hinged doors to doors so that they would bi-fold with both doors (sometimes 3) would fully open… but thats alot more hardware time money and problems…
i’m kinda committed but just want to know if i’m screw’n up
p
Replies
All the ones I've seen either have the moving door hinged to one of the jambs (the jamb on the far side from the fixed door, or have a "center jamb" included in the mix.
I'm guessing the reason has more to do with stops and weatherstripping than with structure -- seems that the edge of one door is probably strong enough to handle the hinges from another.
But I'm also thinking that you won't quite be able to lay one door all the way open against the other. The latch will be extended, and will hit the far jamb.
But if you figure it all out, post some pictures.
Politics is the antithesis of problem solving.
One door fixed sounds good to me.
I had problems in the past when the doors were bifolding. The door affixed to the frame was not strong enough to support the weight of the other door and the joints between the rail and stile would loosen enough to allow the door to rack.
What are you trying to accomplish with this? What are your limitions.
BTW, I have heard these call patio or antrium doors. That only 2 opening doors are truly french doors.
I would trim down the fixed door. Then put stops in the jambs including a bottom jamb on that side. Will need to cut the door down a bit. Then bed the door in caulk.
At the common side you will have another jamb or maybe even double jamb.
That will hold the hinges.
Much stronger and easier to weather proof.
go to an dreaded home horror store and look at some of their units. Some look like they use a cut down door for the fixed side. Other look like they have larged piece of glass set in a frame.
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
mission? i'm try'n to use as few parts and have a way to build these as fast as i can...
i have the jamb stock precut for 96" doors (have left & rights because they are precut for the threshold slant at the bottom) and have enough extras to cut for the top... these have the grove precut for the weather strip.... which i have to use all the way around so that the "doors" stay on the same plane once the jamb is put together (top, sides and threshold) I slip the door side thats to be fixed into the jamb... with the added foam weatherstrip on the bottom and useing 3" deck screws... i screw thru the jamb (from the outside) into the door side, top, & bottom... this Locks the fixed door into place and automaticly squares my jamb... once installed there is all but no way to ever remove this locked in place door.... now on the exposed end of this door i have mortised for my four 4" hinges... to hang my operable door.... allowing me i hope to open this door pretty much back onto the fixed door...
not different than if i used a center jamb or if i had 2 pre hung units put together... (which i considered but i would be short on my jambstock and it'd be more parts and time)
the only issue i THINK i have is the weather strip issue where the 2 doors meet...
easiest fix would be a thin 1/2" wide foam selfstick gasket... of which i have a huge supply of in many thicknesses and everything from very soft to almost hard rubber...
another option is to route a small groove and use a bulb type with the barbed "tail" that pushes into the groove... for which i might have to route a small concave into the other door to accept it....
I'll build my first set in the morning... and I guess i'll see pretty quick where i'm screw'n up... having never done or seen something done has never stopped me from doing it... I spend way too much time reinventing the wheel i know...
p
You don't have much clearance in there when the door is closed.I don't think that the bulb type will work unless you put in a recess like you say.Metal weather stripping will work..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
built and hung one set today... went together without a hitch... looks and operates just like it should... would never know this wasn't done all the time... I think you are right on the metal weatherstriping i have a very even gap between the fixed and operable door when closed... guess'n at just about 3/64"... now... do i put the metal on the fixed unit... i'm assume'n i do... or for some reason on the operable door?
as always...thanks for the input
p
Whenever I have seen the metal weather stripping it has been on "jamb" side.In this case it would be on the fixed door.But a year or so ago there was an article in FHB about installing interlocking metal weather stripping.That requires some slotting the door and some skill and getting things lined up.But looking for the interlocking metal I found a couple of sources.But more interesting was all of the specialized stuff that they had.Such a weather stripping for meeting doors where both can be opened and adjustable sound and light proof stops.Not that you need this. But some lurker might find something interesting in them.http://www.zerointernational.com/content.aspx?p=11
http://www.accurateweatherstrip.com/
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
funny i just reread the artical about metal weather stripping in FHB i looked at the method that requires a grove cut into the receiving door ... think i'll go with standard metal... but i'm not sure a 1/2 inch wide x 1/4" thick self stick soft foam would seal just as good... just not sure about it's lifespan
thanks again
p
Yes. Did 2 sets like that and had them meet in the middle.
Biggest issue is to support the lead edge of the second door.
Best to use either a slotted track as a threshold with a guide for support or conversely a slotted track at the header with a hanger style roller bearing. Hidden or visible slide bolts should be mounted at the 2-door hinge point to help keep them tight to weather stripping at top and bottom as well as for security so that they cannot be forced open at that juncture.
I don't have any ready hardware links to offer but know I have purchased the correct stuff from an industrial hardware supplier here.
OOPs, just went back and re-read your post , you are doing a fixed sidelight style unit. Sorry.
Edited 8/10/2008 3:10 pm by dovetail97128
Even if you can get them to operate fully, they are still going to sag and twist more than you think. It's like corner cabinet doors. I've never been happy with most of those, especially the ones I was responsible for. Do I understand you correctly? If I do, I think the next alternative can't be as bad, and way less complicated.
Brian
i did my second set today... built and hung without a hitch... for all practical purposes... all i'm doing is hanging an 8ft door off a 6" x 1 3/4 " stile... that just happend to be part of a 32" x 96" window (fixed full view door)... just happens to be set in the same frame....
with four 4" stainless hinges i don't see it going anywhere...
i'm building a jamb with threshold 96 x 64 inside.... (thereabouts) use'n glue & those green 3.25" deckscrews (predrill'n) alum theshold with the hardwood insert that adjusts... ( cut'n the adjustable part beteen door so the fixed side stays fixed and the operable side still adjusts) then i fit the preprimed door/now sidelight into the jamb with the head & side weatherstrip in place... and use'n the same deck screws i screw it off starting at the upper corner to establish and keep it square... also compressing the weather strip keeping the door ...now sidelight, flush with the interior side of the jamb.... i also screw up thrugh the bottom of the threshold into the door/sidelight... i now have a jamb with a fixed sidelight that use to be a full view door.... i've already routed/mortised the sidelight for the hinges... as well as the door that will be operable...
install...
i shim up my non latch side of my R/O top & bottom with 1/2" thick 4 7/8 x 10 peices of plywood attached to the jamb ( my rough openings happen to be plumb and square because i built em knowing i was to be the one hang'n the doors)... this plywood is what the jamb will get screwed to... the jambs sit on precast lintels.. again thes are level because i set them ... they get a bead of one part poly caulk that the threshold sets in... the fixed side and top gets screwed off through predrilled holes (same deck screws)... i now shim and screw off the top & bottom only of the strike side of the jam... during all this i double check everything for square level and eye it up make'n sure it's all in the same plane... I now hang the operable door... the only shim'n left to do is to the strike side to keep the clearance jamb to door even... now it's just a matter of trim'n/case'n it out... and caulking
my rough openings are less than 1" large on how wide they are and less than 1/2" on how tall... before rough'n em in i set aside the doors for each opening... so i'm pretty good on that.... the r/o on the brick was about 79" wide (but could vary in one hole from 77.5 to 79.5 must have been drunk masons 200yrs ago) so i have about 7" on each side to scribe in the trim for...
so far so good... i get called away alot so i'm guess'n it's take'n about 2 -3 hours labor per set to get them built and set... and should be another 2hrs each to trim em out inside & out... which includes prime'n & back prime'n and caulk...
p