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Need advice as to the whether to pursue the placement of a pair of french doors (wall opening needed 82 1/2″ X 62 1/2″) in a 19 foot long, 8 foot high load bearing wall which divides the familyroom and living room. The house is 20 years old and the wall is drywall. What would need to be done to maintain the load bearing strength of the wall and at the same time have the french doors. Is this an unwise project. Thanks for your advice.
Patti & Ken
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Replies
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Is there an existing opening between the rooms? How big? If there is no opening where you want the doors located, or if it is smaller than the RO needed for the doors, then you will have to open the wall and install a header adequate for the span. It is certainly a do-able project and not at all "unwise".
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You should be able to do this. However, more information is necessary. What load bears on this wall? Ceiling joists, 2nd level floor joists with what above? And of course, you will be transfering that load to what's below the floor level you make the opening in. Need to see the whole shebang before real useful advice can be given.
In most situations, a site built header, will carry the
load for that opening. In some cases you might need an LVL or other beam. Still, the job is possible if you want it. If you take a drawing to an LVL distributor (lumber yard), the LVL manufacturer will probably spec. you a size beam for your project. Some building inspections might also be able to advise you. Yet again, why don't you hire out to a reliable carpenter at least creating the opening you want and then tackle the door hanging and trim yourself if that's what you can do. Remember, you have to hold up what's up there while you make that hole and install the beam. Why don't you give us your location, one of us might be your neighbor. Best of luck.
*PattiGood advice above, but if the i load is only one floor plus limited attic storage,i or roof loadCanadian Building Code allows a double 2x12 for a beam and there is enough room to install it under the joists above. If the load is only ceiling joists with limited attic storage above and no roof load, a double 2X8 will suffice. As you can see, specific loads require different framing. Know b exactly what you're dealing with and thenconsult a load and span chart for your area!!!A temp beam (4"x4"x8'+/-)held up by jack posts positioned over floor joists, on one or both sides of the existing wall will support the ceiling while you remove the necessary studs from the existing wall and reframe with typical framing. A skilled carpenter with helper could do without the jack post beam clutter, by having everything precut and close to hand. . . installing the King studs before removing the old studs, and being really quick with the beam and trim stud install, leaving a couple of braces in midspan(there's a technique & an important sequence). . . but why take chances with plaster cracks in the ceiling.You'll love the end result!!-pm
*I'm currently in similar situation, I'm wanting to enlarge opening in exterior load bearing wall to fit larger French doors w/ transom & sidelites. My local Bldg Dept engr is being very helpful. Here, any "remodel" that affects structural requires a permit. I have to bring him a sketch of floor joist layout, etc, but then he'll recommend an appropriate header size & type, saving me a few $100s in Engineer fees. So don't overlook your Bldg Dept as a good resource.
*TomAdding a transom above your French Doors is going to be a problem in a typical(8') load bearing wall, because of space required for the beam above. Here's a i trickI've used several times when space was tight, turn the joist header above into a beam.It's much more easily done with new construction, but if you're willing to open up more of your wall it gives you back the space for a decent sized transom. After openning up the exterior of the wall, and supporting the ceiling joists on the interior, you remove the pertinent part of the existing header, cut back the joists 1.5"to allow installing a double beam/header, hang the joists off of j/hangers, and if the new beam/header is deeper than the existing joists, add a ledger strip to the bottom for the joists to sit upon.I came up with this some years back to bail out an incompetent architect, and the detail was passed by the Building dep't in Toronto. . . I've used it several times since.Have fun-pm
*A timely Q for me, too -- a client of mine wants a similar installation, but in an exterior wall beneath 2 1/2 stories, joists running in random directions (100 y.o. house). But it is a straightforward project, the only major issue is cost.For a bit of comfort and liability protection, I am paying an engineer to review the plans, and suggest you do so also -- it's cheap relative to even the cost of the doors. He and I already did a walk-through. You may even end up saving money by not going into overkill through guessing the correct size of the beam. The header might be ganged-up 2x's, or engineered lumber such as LVL's or LSL's, or even steel (often $$$). If undersized the beam will sag, jamming the doors and/or cracking the wall surfaces above.Are there wires, HVAC ducts, or plumbing in the wall that will need to be relocated? Also, don't forget that the beam connection to the supporting studs, the studs themselves, and whatever is below the studs must all be appropriately done as well. These things add to cost.Hey guys, how much should something like this cost where you are, including finishing? I'm supposing about $3k for the doors, maybe $4.5k quoted, assuming no complications (as there always are)?
*Patrick,Dont forget steel. For a couple of dollars more you may be able to get a steel header (flitch plate or I beam) and be able to get it in a couple inches. A good local steel fabricator can figure what size you need.Rick Tuk
*Patti,Make sure to look under the house and see if you are not bringing point loads down in a bad spot. I have seen many people think about the bearing above without considering the bearing below. A couple hundred bucks to an engineer may save you a lot of heartache in the end.Rick Tuk
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Dido on the mechanicals in the wall, surprise , surprise. The opportunity is surely there to encounter a reality check in them there walls, especially if a second story is involved. Locate this wall in the basement and look for breaks in the subfloor directly beneath the soleplate. You need to consider the rough openings location in the wall,i.e.is there room for jockeying the position to avoid the moving of mechanicals which could become your worst nightmare as a home owner attempting this on a tight budget. Fear not for you have consulted the proper oracle most of these people are cream of the crop.
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Need advice as to the whether to pursue the placement of a pair of french doors (wall opening needed 82 1/2" X 62 1/2") in a 19 foot long, 8 foot high load bearing wall which divides the familyroom and living room. The house is 20 years old and the wall is drywall. What would need to be done to maintain the load bearing strength of the wall and at the same time have the french doors. Is this an unwise project. Thanks for your advice.
Patti & Ken