Wondering what everyones’ thoughts are regarding friends/business.
A long time friend used another company for services. Very surprised.
The only explanation I can think of is this: when you are doing well… some people dont want you doing better than they…
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Replies
I think many people are wary of entering into business arrangements with friends. They fear it will mess up the friendship.
Are you the only friend the guy has? Is he married? Does the wife have a nephew that's just getting started in a competing business?
Could be lots of reasons.
Some people spread the wealth around, some play on loyalty.
Got any more info to add?
copper p0rn
He's not only your friend, but you are his friend & he values that.
Thank him.
Never work for family, friends or anyone you see on Sunday mornings.
No one should regard themselve as "God's gift to man." But rather a mere man whos gifts are from God.
Yeah, consider that a lot of "friends" would have offered you the job and then expected you to give them a "deal". This guy valued his friendship more than he valued getting a "deal".
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
My wifes cousin and husband run a construction company. They DIDN'T build our house. I think it came up one time and I simply said "I have to see you guys at weddings, funerals, christmas, easter, graduations and on and on for the next 50 years God willing. The quickest way to make that miserable for all concerned is for us to get money mixed up in the middle of it."
I also don't sell cars to friends or relatives or loan them money...not that I have any to loan.
Great reply, how they take that? No one should regard themselve as "God's gift to man." But rather a mere man whos gifts are from God.
Re: What did my wifes cousin say when I told them we had to meet at wedding funerals etc for the next 50 years.
I think they understood. It helps that they were busy at the time and not struggling. I can see it unfolding differently in these times
Glad it worked out. No one should regard themselve as "God's gift to man." But rather a mere man whos gifts are from God.
I had not a close friend but a friend none the less hire someone else to paint their house. I had spoken to them about doing the work at a Christmas party last year.
They were planning on redoing some shingles. I suggested some ways to save money by priming the shingles themselves before they were applied and other tips regarding rain screen behind the new stuff.
They hired another dude who works by the hour for cash who we have bid against in the past. A two day job took six.
There is a point to avoiding a messy work relationship. There is also no one I would rather hire than a person I trust. I look forward to talking to this couple and discussing how the project went.
Jon
Russian saying
If they're really friends, I wouldn't bring the "Project" up. Not your problem.
If you bring it up it'll sound like sour grapes. Don't burn the bridges Let them figure it out for themselves. Ypu'll get some short lived satisfaction and maybe lose some friends in the process.
It can be a difficult and fine balance.
In recent years I'll admit to not using a "friend" to frame our house. He wasn't a very close friend, but we had developed a relationship and he is a neighbor. We had spoken about our house project on numerous occaisions, and I'm sure he thought he would build it.
But after a number of conversations, it became clear that his approach to house building was at odds with what we wanted to do. He typically managed a project from stem to stern, after which he handed the owners a key to a completely finished house with flooring, trim, paint, all exterior details, etc. Around here this amounts to around $250/sq. ft.
He refused to let me think I could create a liveable house for less than $150/sq. ft. Completely depressed, and questioning my own judgement, I had to walk away and hire someone else. My figures told me that we could move in at around the $90 mark.
As it turned out, we were comfortable at around $80 (thankfully), but I still wish I could have worked it out with him. Of course, he thought he was doing us a favor by sticking to his guns; I guess he's seem a few failed projects in his time, but not this one.
Scott.
I needed a filling in a tooth last week. I've been away from my NY dentist for a while so I had to find someone locally. My neighbor across the street is a dentist. Nice guy and I'm sure he's competent to do a filling. Did I ask him? Nope.
I went to another local dentist who runs an ad in a monthly circular. I got a postive hit from the ad which turned out to be true. Careful, thorough, professional and reasonably priced.
Maybe my neighbor/friend would feel the same way that you do but I'm more comfortable keeping business and friendship separate. That decision comes after many not-so-great experiences, doing business with friends.
My ratio was about three to one, not-so-great to happy-on-both-sides.
I was upset about Friends not hiring me till i figured out some intended on short changing any one that worked for them or they could not rub 2 nickels together yet wanted the Tag Ma hall for Barneys Basement prices.
A friend called me to bid an addition off his garage, I didn't charge for the design. Then he turned around and used my design and hired an unlicensed bootleg contractor to do the work on weekends because he charged less. No more.
one thought running thru my mind in this thread is that some might have to re-define "friend"
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Maybe - but I think most of have known people who we could be firends with but couldn't work with...
LOL amen to that!View Image bakersfieldremodel.com
That ain't a real friend.
yup. and that's when I realized it LOL!View Image bakersfieldremodel.com
The word 'friend' probably should not even be used in the same sentence with that individual's name. If you did the design for 'grins' rather that as your means of earning a living you could feel flattered but seeing as how the opposite is the case you been robbed.
Edited 9/28/2009 1:46 pm ET by JIMMIEM
"If you did the design for 'grins' rather that as your means of earning a living..."Yes. I have a friend who is my primary electrician, lives a stones thrt5ow from me.
I have designed his addition, his new shop with apt above for rental, and his hunting camp upland.In return I have had his excavator to use a few times, access to his storage shed, and should I want to go hunting up there.....
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
That's the kind of friend to have. One that gives as well as takes. He's a keeper.
Firends are a lot harder to find than customers. Most of my customers are happy, but some people can not be pleased. How do you know your friend isn't one of those? You never really know until you do work for someone. How much do you value the friendship?
some people can not be pleased
I've got a long list of happy customers that will and do give me rave reviews when I need a reference.
But I did one for a friend of a friend, just like you describe. Started out "keep it cheap, it's just a rental, new kitchen cabinets and a quick coat of paint on the rest". Ended up being nitpicked like a million dollar job, including several page punch lists from the son-in-law, a bankrupt ex-contractor. I punched every item on the list, cost me a lot. $26K job, didn't bring home a nickel. Almost cost me my marriage! Told him there's your job, never call me again. Like you say, some people just can't/won't be pleased.View Image bakersfieldremodel.com
back when i was in the car bussiness,i hated selling a car to a friend,i'd tell em that.
if they still wanted to buy i would tell em what i really paid,what i had to make to pay overhead,no bs,just that i had to make a couple hundred.
i'd sell em the car for that. but......... if it blew up the next day,i'm sorry,it's a car and who knows whats going to happen next.
worked pretty well,luckily. but i hate dealing with friends, no way today would i rent a friend a house.
the older i get ,
the more people tick me off
>>
back when i was in the car bussiness
<<
I once sold a boat to a friend. It was all good, and I think we both felt like we got a fair deal but over the next 5 or 6 years I'll be danged if I didn't hear about everything that ever went wrong with or had to be replaced on that boat. You know - just mentioned in casual conversation. Again it was all friedly, but still, I didn't need the details.
Yeah, I used my FILs table saw one time....everything that ever went wrong with it after that he mentioned in accusatory terms.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
We GAVE a relative a car once, and never heard the end of it.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
Same here except it was a friend. He finally burned the engine up so that ended it. I'd drive it to the scrapyard next time.
no good deed goes unpunished - once again!View Image bakersfieldremodel.com
yeah, a boat is a hole in the water you pour money into!, and its all your fault.
We bought a '72 Chevy truck from our neighbor, who had been a used car salesman for years.
We needed a truck. He had a truck. He gave us a great deal with the understanding that he could borrow it now and then.
Mind you, we were gardening buddies, too. Exchanging tips, seeds, dirt, etc.
Anyway, it worked out great for all of us. He rarely needed the truck. If we had to do a dump run, we'd just ask him if he had anything. He ended up with brain cancer and died, but we helped with his yard and garden, which were very important to him, until the end.
Loved, and still miss that truck. I had to give it up because it was too high for me to get my 98yo grandfather in.Work for the greatest vital intensity - the greatest solidity and aesthetic reality. Finally, eliminate everything non-essential. Reduce to the absolute essence. ~ F.C. Trucksess
I hate dealing with friends... one I refuse to make a profit on a friend... Two... they always think you made a profit...have some friends always have some MLM or something they are selling from home or at "parties" these deals they can only profit off friends... i hate that krap... because i'd never do it... then you hear about how much money they make doing it... how can someone feel right about selling a friend something for $10 that costs them $3...
I hope i never need $7 that bad... maybe just the way i was raised...p
Edited 9/29/2009 9:18 pm ET by ponytl
Yea.... I was in partnership with a "friend" for 14 years... amazing how much he made off of me because I was stupid enough to believe friends don't make money off of friends. My fault though.. he was just following his belief that their are no friends in business .. not even your partner.
Life is Good
If you want to start an epic thread, do one on friends as business partners. HA!
My Dad always told us, never go into buiness with friends or family.
He was in the flooring buiness with his older brother for life, best two friends you'd ever meet, Once in a life time deal. No one should regard themselve as "God's gift to man." But rather a mere man whos gifts are from God.
I used to have a hard and fast rule not to do business with friends. That rule was the result of my best bud's DW reaming me a new ahole at about 400db and literally tearing up my bill and throwing it in my face 'cause she didn't like the design I'd done for her newspaper ad.
That was when I owned a graphic arts studio in NYC. On the whole, I'd say that rule was a good idea at that time and in that place.
I would also say that, over the years I owned that company, a few people who started out as clients eventually became friends. But at that point, I either stopped doing business with them, or refused to charge them.
I retired from that business in 83 or 84, sailed tugs in the merchant marine for 7 years or so and then got into the ski business. So after over 20 years of having been my own boss, I became an employee again. In some ways, it was a bit of a relief. But it took some getting used to, ahem....
When I went back into business part time in 95, it was as a carp/remod guy, and it happened by accident. I had just finished building my own house, and started getting requests from friends and neighbours to do small jobs (and soon enough bigger ones) for them. Over the years, I have retained pretty much all of those friends and neighbours as clients, and taken on many more. It works out very well, but there are occasionally those 'difficult' situations to deal with; 90% of the time they have to do with money. Natch....
When I feel like griping, tho, I just remind myself of the Great Revelation I had a few years back.
I was talking with my best bud one day about bosses and clients I'd had over the years, and suddenly stopped dead and looked at him. 'Damn,' I said. 'I just realised that for most of my life, most of the people I've worked for were aholes or jerkballs. And that is a really stupid way to spend one's life.
'Well, I'm not gonna do that anymore.'
So now, I work only for people I like.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
foolish men call Justice....
I like it.
some people live by a principle that they do not do business with friends, because they value the friendship
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Just as soon not work for friends. I'm currently doing a job for a friend. I knocked $300 off my demo and $50 off the disposal fee and he still complained.
I told him it was damn near charity and he still thought it was high.
Did I mention that in my 8 years doing this, his was the second hardest demo we'd ever done?
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
People often have more than one friend, some may be in the business, too. You can't do every job. There can be dozens of reasons why they didn't ask you and none of them have anything to do with you or your workmanship. Of course, the converse can be true. You'll never know unless you ask. I wouldn't take it personal until you know that's the case.
Some folks may be hesitant to enter into a business agreement with a friend. They value the friendship and don't want anything to have a negative impact on it. They may feel that making demands, judgments or criticisms about their job would be difficult with a friend, if such things were to occur. Not everyone thinks this way, I've done many jobs for friends and made friends from many jobs but I don't always do all the jobs for all my friends.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
I occasionally do jobs for close friends and I appreciate the business. Like most people who work for friends I too try to give my friends a little break on my labor cost. But, can someone offer me a theory on why this is....
Out of a hundred chimneys or skylights i flash in, why is it that only one that leaks is my friends?
Seems like you get a crappy bunk of lumber when get it for your friends job.
To me, it seems like the real aggravating stuff that happens on a job almost always happen when you are working for friends. Many others on here offer advice to stay away from working for friends. I'm about ready to take their advice.
Jobs for family....I stay the hell away, those jobs are the worst!
I have a neighbor who is a remodeling contractor. His work is very highly regarded in our town. He also did some work on my wife's mother's house at our recomendation. Also, he has done work for our other neighbors. We don't socialize with our contractor/neighbor, just chat when outside doing yard work, etc. Based on conversation with other neighbors he doesn't give a lower bid just because he's doing work for a neighbor. I need to have some work done on our house but am hesitant to do business with a neighbor.
What would you do?
Interview him and ask him for a bid.You've already established that there isn't much of a relationship. You've also recommended him and he performed. What is your concern?
Not being in 100% agreement with him.
I have worked for every immediate neighbor and several within the block and can offer only one thing-if you have an overactive conscience-it screams Lifetime Guarantee.
I guess there are more things-they are a great source for direct referrals. These folks, always eager to stay current on payments. No drive time. A real source of pride getting to see your work every day. Potential for a sunday nite call with an emergency.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
my neighbors have offered me a bit of work over the years, all of which I turned down. I have fixed stuff for free for them but never charged a cent.
I think you are asking for trouble entering into a business arrangement with a friend or neighbor or relative.
I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
Take life as a test and shoot for a better score each day. Matt Garcia
another thought. I recently broke my rule and bought all my new kitchen cabinets from a fellow councilman. While not a "friend" we do have a decent relationship.
Now, I have had a lot of problems with the new cabinets and I feel reluctant to go after him the same way I would a stranger. So, I get to eat the problems, to some degree, because I am afraid to be too hard on him.
Perhaps your friend does not want to hire you in case that situation arises.
I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
Take life as a test and shoot for a better score each day. Matt Garcia
Note that you may be breaking the law by doing business with him, depending on the state you're in, how many in the council, etc.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
no, it is all good.
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I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
Take life as a test and shoot for a better score each day. Matt Garcia