I am building a new home and have cut about 20 – 30 nice cherry logs off my land to become my downstairs flooring. My neighbor has a saw mill and can cut the wood up no problem.
My question is what is the next step after that? I know that I need the wood kiln dried and milled but I am not sure what to specify with the milling company.
What is end matching and how is that accomplished if the boards are not cut to finished length (would not do this with rough lumber).
I am also considernig random widths but not too wide – maybe just 3″ and 4″ but would that create a problem for the installer?
Presume I cut the boards to 4/4.
Thanks for any advice.
Replies
OK, one step at a time.
Once the logs are milled into boards, the boards need to be stickered and air-dried. The rule of thumb is one year per inch of thickness.Or, you can find a local kiln, and have them dry it. Or, you can build your own kiln, and dry the lumber yourself.
You shouldn't do any finish milling until the boards are dry- 8% moisture content is what comes to mind, but you can google and check that number.
If the logs aren't already milled, I'd ask for them to be quarter-sawn. The flooring will be a lot more stable that way. You don't get as much yield from the log, tho.
Finish milling the boards to 3"-4" width should be no problem. Any decent installer will be able to work with that. You might want to see what kind of widths you get from your logs, and try to work with that for maximum yield.
The edges of the boards should be tongue and grooved, which can be done with either a shaper, or a router in a table. The shaper with a power feeder will be a lot faster, and probably more precise. The ends of the boards could be T&G, or just bisquited as they are installed.
Sounds like a great project. Good luck with it.
Shouldn't the back re relieved also?Commercial milling uses multihead machines and do all surfaces at once.But with such a setup I don't know if they can handle random widths very easily..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
I'm not sure how necessary back relieving really is. I'm sure it's not a bad idea, and can help the floor lie flat over any small bumps.
And I'd probably do it, just in case.
I don't know if the OP is going to do the floor milling himself, or hire it out. But to do all that work is going to be a pretty big project, even without installing the flooring.
"but I am not sure what to specify with the milling company.".
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
I worked at a sawmill that also made flooring and such. Here is my advice.
Sell the logs to a mill, use the $$$ to get Cherry flooring as you wish.
Why? Drying Cherry is an art in itself, it will warp, cup, twist, bow and crook, no matter how you do it..You will have loss, not ALL will do that, but trust me, a bunch will. Commercial kilns inject some steam as it dries, and do a much betterjob without air drying first.
A 4 head or more MOULDER is what makes easy to lay flooring, forget having a shop T&G and try to endmatch it..get REAL flooring made /graded as FLOORING, not just a bunch of mixed sap and heart wood sawn through and through and call it flooring.
It is a wonderful dream of DIY ing it , but dreams are just that, for a good reason.
The Mill I was at would tally the logs total BF and equate a % of what they'd give you in machined stock..everybody happy.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
that's probably the best advise yet.
Let the truth sting. I've seen a lot of good wood get hammered to fire wood, by good intentions.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
Thanks for the advice (still gonna do it though) - main reason is because I have a sawmill next door to my house so I will get boards for virtually free - and they are stacked up and ready to go (along with a lot of other species that I will use for other projects). I like the idea of quarter sawn.
All I am planning on doing myself is making the boards, the rest will be farmed out. The wood will be professionally kiln dried and then made into flooring. I will make sure I find an outfit around me that can handle the t&g milling for flooring.
Where I live (western MA) there are a lot of hardwood operators making flooring so hopefully the resources are around.
My mainconcern was that I delivered the boards in proper form and if there was anything in particular I should ask for.
Thanks
Well then they should be able to handle 4/4 RWL and optimize it to your dims. Depending on the rough sizes 3,5,7 makes a nice floor. And there probably won't be too much 7" to cause issues.
IMO, endmatching is not always needed. If it is graded as FAS it may warrant the milling, but if you are culling out defects from #2 com. you will be lopping the ends off anyway, and it would be a lot less $$$ without the end matchs ( cuz they defect out and end trim the end checks, thier time is likely more$$ than yours). If the ends bother you,a biscut during install can keep things flat.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
Oh, BTW...Cherry is one species that actually looks better as flat sawn..quartersawn gets blah..it has no ( or aleast fewer) redeeming ,striking medulary ray patterns like Sycamore or White Oak.
Where as the ribbon of early wood is more porous and darker in contrast to the latewood, in flat sawn it gets a cathedral grain effect that is pleasing. And the issues of movement are negligable in Flat sawn Vs. quatersawn in modern climate controlled homes.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
Why not find your mill shop first? Tell them what you have and what you want, then ask what you need to do for them to complete it for you. Might as well just go to the source right?Jimmy W.
Plankhead,
I've done exactly this.. let me share my experience with you..
First do not kiln dry the wood.. several reasons not to. Air dry it instead..
first kiln drying can potentially induce all sorts of stress into wood from case hardening to honeycombing and cause warpage that may not have occurred with a more gentle drying program.. Nobody admits these problems ever occur but they do.
second air drying produces the best color and finest working wood.. Kiln drying forces a chemical change in the wood that isn't always pleasant..
third Kiln drying may mean a lot of things.. in a perfect world it takes the wood down to 7% moisture without damaging it. Perfection doesn't always happen and sometimes even the best people make mistakes.. I assume you don't own a moisture meter which is the only way to accurately tell. You sure can't feel the differance.
once dried the wood still must acclimatize to the room where it's to be installed. pros rush things and try to get away with a couple of weeks but reality for the finest job it should be a couple of months.. wood doesn't shed or gain moisture like a wad of cotton. It has a closed cell construction which means wood must absorb moisture in a slow & steady fashion..
Next why did you cut down your tress and have them milled? Is it to save money or make use of a resource? It makes a difference.. because if you have the trees milled and professionally installed you will spend much more for that then simply buying prefinished wood and having it installed.. Massively more!
I have planks of black walnut that I paid 17 cents for sitting here in my basement nice wide planks of straight planks which have already been planned and jointed.. Yet it's cheaper for me to buy flooring and install it than finishing them off and installing them.. I have all the tools and equipment required plus the time and the willingness to do so. Yet it's cheaper and faster to buy and install than to make my own flooring..
My sister did exactly as you are proposing to do and her cost in spite of near free wood was much more than buying prefinished wood flooring. She did it because she wanted the look that that particular ash yielded.. All Commercial ash had a slight (ever so slight if you ask me) grey tint/ hue to it. This Ash was a softer yellowish tint.
OK I've been talking about everything except your choice of wood.. Cherry is a soft wood some might say too soft for good flooring.. However I've seen pine used as flooring eastern white pine which is a real soft wood.. it was acceptable to the owners.. it's your choice..
End matching is a matter of judgement, Skill,.... Selection of one wood which has a similar grain structure color and growth pattern to another. Some like that homogenous look while others prefer the randomness of different colored wood in contrast.. Wood isn't one color or grain pattern. To me the beauty of wood is the contrast between one board and another..
In simple terms not putting a dark grain next to a light grain.. extremely difficult to do well and always subject to second guessing..
Wide planks are a design statement.. I've seen planks over 50 inches wide installed and they made the back cover of this magazine.. I have 22 inch wide planks to install. 3 or 4 inch wide is basically strip flooring. It should present no issue with the installer..
Really wide flooring (wider than 6 inches ) does require some special techniques and more time but to some it's easily worth it. I went wide random planks to keep my floor from looking like a gym floor. You may like the gym floor look so please do not let my taste influence your choice..
One further point about wood flooring.. most wood flooring eventually gets covered up.. rugs, furniture, etc. cover it and you wind up judging the floor not on what it winds up completed as but the remaining bits that show.. One floor with fantastic borders which were extremely intricate and fantastic only showed here and there and actually wound up making what was left of the floor look too busy!
Finally may I strongly suggest that you use a shellac instead of any other finish..
First
Beauty, fine antiques are done with shellac because shellac really brings out the true beauty of wood.. You don't need satins because it doesn't look plastic.
Second
Durability, shellac is harder than most other finishes and can easily be repaired without sanding or creating a big mess.
Third,
Speed.. shellac can go down in the morning and you can have guests over that evening.
fourth
Safety, You've been eating shellac since you were a kid,, nearly every pill you take and most candy you eat is coated with shellac.. (oh and shellac has a slight smell that only lasts while it's drying. It's a soft sweet smell ) while there is the smell of a docters office while it's being applied that doesn't last very long at all..
Fifth,
Repairability.. any other finish usually must be sanded to be repaired.. shellac simply needs denatured alcohol rubbed on it to make scratches even deep scratches disapper. If you want to remove it all you simply get it wet with denatured alcohol and then take a scratch brite pad to it and it comes off.. it doesn't matter if it's been a day, a week, or a century! bare wood!
Sixth,
Cost, you can easily do it yourself and it happens so quickly and it's so goof proof it's a simple do-it-yourself project. 500 sq.ft can be done in about 2 hours and if you are worried give the brush to your kids, pull a Tom Sawyer they can't mess up (even their clothes will come clean in the wash) (ask and I'll talk you through each step)..
Shellac has gone up recently, a gallon (about 500 sq ft's worth) costs $29.00 at Home Depot or most stores.
If you want to see pictures of my flooring go to the advanced search function over on the left side of the page and go to 86920.13
OK, there is a lot of good advice in here from you guys - enough to get me started.
SO whats the trick to printing an entire thread so I can save it and refer back to it later?
Will be back with some pics of the project as I move along.
Thanks.
OH - and I am really doing it to use a resource. Of course I know its cheaper to buy flooring at the box or whereever, but the trees came directly frmo the site of the house and I'd like to make them a part of the home if possible.
Being as there are less than 20 posts, you can go to post #1 and left hold the text as you drag to the end, highliting as you go. Rt click and hit print , if you have XP . ( I think thats how its done).
edit: yup, just tried.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
Edited 9/23/2007 7:24 am ET by Sphere
Plankhead-- For what it's worth I would have it all kiln dried to 6 percent and I would loosen the bundles in the heated house for a week or two before laying it and would do the work while the house was heating. Best time late winter. I dunno but if you are north of Georgia such as Pennsylvania the moisture content would be the same as all the rest of the USA. If you are south of Georgia down in the southeast corner 8 percent would be fine. I would have it all at 2 1/4" and flat sawn. That means the face of the board is toward the outside of the tree. Cherry can be beautiful and it's shrinkage is 2/3 that of red oak. It is however a wee bit softer and lighter. LOL-- Mesic
Check out http://www.woodweb.com
You can find many answers to your questions there.
I have a couple stacks of cherry - just waiting for the right project.