Replies

1. 
   calvin | Jul 23, 2015 02:20pm | #1

   Jim

   post some pictures please.

   thanks.

1. 
   jimmiem | Jul 23, 2015 03:01pm | #2

   Calvin

   Pictures are attached.  I had pulled the pilaster off and covered the rotted area with ice and water barrier and replaced the pillaster while I went to buy some plywood sheathing.  Some of the clapboards that abutt the pillaster are also punky and will need to be replaced. I removed the handrail for some of the pictures.

   
1. 
   calvin | Jul 23, 2015 03:24pm | #3

   Jim

   any evidence of moisture to the inside wall, ceiling or sideline?

   how does the light and block look?

   is the prevailing weather from the right?

   do you have a sprinkler system that baths the area daily?

1. 
   jimmiem | Jul 23, 2015 03:38pm | #4

   Calvin

   There appear to be water streaks on the inside below the sidelights.  Ceiling and upper walls are dry.

   Light and block?  I don't understand.

   Most weather from the left (East).  Door faces North. 

   No sprinkler.

   I had one piece deadlights covering each side light space....went from top to bottom....Maybe reinstall?

1. 
   calvin | Jul 23, 2015 09:49pm | #9

   Jim

   I meant the sidelights on either side and the blocks they a mounted on.

   since this a hunt, and some of the claps are gone to the dogs, I'd suggest stripping them off that side or both and go up till you find no water intrusion.  Repair and replace from there.

   and of course, know that the bottom of jambs where they meet the threshold are always a possibility for water entry.  The reason they make the jamb bottoms available with composite material mated to the rest of the jamb.

   best of luck!

2. 
   jimmiem | Jul 23, 2015 10:08pm | #10

   Calvin

   Have you ever seen water wick up sheathing a couple of feet?

3. 
   calvin | Jul 24, 2015 05:32am | #11

   No sir

   cant say I have.  Board in a bucket of water, maybe.

4. 
   DanH | Jul 24, 2015 08:21am | #12

   I could see water wicking that far with something like gypsum sheathing, or maybe some odd version of fiberboard.  Would have to be something that was used inappropriately, though.

5. 
   DanH | Jul 26, 2015 09:16am | #15

   Supply appropriate drawings and spec's to your local professional engineer of choice. I'm sure he or she will be glad to help you with your specific project--and charge you accordingly.

   Any knee jerk advice here is better left ignored

   (In case it isn't obvious:  )

6. 
   deadnuts | Jul 26, 2015 04:42pm | #19

   DanH,

   I'm glad you're secretly reading every word of my posts even though you claim to have me on "ignore". I knew that breaktime feature was really a joke meant to appease people with limited mental capacity.

   Anyhow, to see you starting to use them in your own posts is very satisfying because I now know that you're bound to learn something yet.  Your last hurdle is simply being able to apply them at the appropriate time. Practice, practice, practice.

2. 
   mark122 | Jul 25, 2015 09:42pm | #13

   the piece of siding directly above the light on the right side of the door, and the piece of siding  2 laps down from that light look to have water damage. I would look in that direction. I understand that some of the caulking between the siding and corner trim may have been broken when you where removing the door trim but you can see clear cracks in the siding/trim location.

   I would suspect that light, and the drip cap above the light from the get go because of the way the paint and siding looks in that area.

2. 
   DanH | Jul 23, 2015 06:37pm | #5

   Are you able to associate the leakage with a particular type of rain (eg, is it always a driving rain from the north?), or is that not possible.

   We've had intermittent issues with our door.  One I traced to weep holes in the aluminum threshold that shouldn't have been there, given the fact that it was sitting on a concrete stoop that floods.

   But the other issue appeared to be with the single sidelight.  It appears that a driving rain would cause water striking the face of sidelight (a steel unit with plastic-framed light) to run down its face and get caught and "sucked in" by the plastic frame around the light, from there running into the interior of the steel sidelight unit.  This was exacerbated by the fact that the plastic frame had curled slightly from sun and age.

1. 
   jimmiem | Jul 23, 2015 07:22pm | #6

   Water Source

   I don't see water leaks when it rains.  It must be leaking over a long period of time.  The wood abutting the pillaster was rotting at the bottom (the black ice and water barrier is covering the rotted wood) which is part of the door frame.  I took the pillaster off and the sheathing behind it was wet and rotting.  The rot extended up a couple of feet and extends under the clapboards toward the corner trim.  I'm kind of confused as to which direction the water is coming from.  My sidelights have the plastic framed windows too.  This problem has continued for years......that's why the pillasters were replaced....they were rotting.  I did replace the corner boards.....no problem there when I removed the originals....I just replaced all the corners on the house with Azek to cut down on the prep when painting.  I probably have the same type of door....steel clad Stanley.   I'm tempted to just replace the whole door unit.   

1. 
   DanH | Jul 23, 2015 07:57pm | #7

   I wonder if the moisture is somehow getting in above and then running down on the inside somehow.

   Or is it possible (don't know where you are) that the moisture is coming from condensation in the winter (mainly when temps are below about 10F), due to lack of a reliable vapor barrier on the inside?

1. 
   jimmiem | Jul 23, 2015 08:39pm | #8

   Water Leak

   Water from above has me puzzled.  There is a light on the side of the house right beside the pillaster.  It's got flashing on top of the board (not sure what it is called) that the light is attached to and it's caulked all around.  I'm going to replace the rotting sheathing....hope the studs aren't too bad, replace the bad clapboards and rebuild the door framing section that rotted. 

3. 
   deadnuts | Jul 26, 2015 12:27am | #14

   A roof overhang from above helps, but you don't need one to have weather proof entry door surround. IMO, the culprit of your water intrusion is  an improperly constructed/detailed trabeated door surround rather than wicking. This includes a cornice header that is probably shedding water to the cyma returns (which, in turn, can shoot behind siding) and improper/incomplete counter flashing at siding, light blocks, and pilasters.

   My guess is that your Grace I&W and pvc trim fix is only exacerbating the problem at this point because it's holding moisture in (from bulk water intrustion above) rather than addressing wicking from the sides and below.

   I recommend that you take this thing apart and do it right. There are a myriad of articles in F.H. and J.L.C. that explain the details to get it right.

1. 
   jimmiem | Jul 26, 2015 03:19pm | #16

   Deadnuts

   For years I have been curious as to whether or not the problem might be the heading over the door.  I had to do a search for the meaning of trabeated.  I found one reference to cyma returns but not an explanation.  Can you explain this detail, please?  

2. 
   jimmiem | Jul 26, 2015 03:35pm | #17

   Deadnuts

   Can the trabeated door surround usually be removed and reinstalled or does it usually get too damaged during removal?  Is it integral to the door frame or added after door installation as a trim element? Also, if I were to replace it can I get a pre-made replacement?  How important is it to be architecturaly correct?  I've been looking around and the designs kind of run the gamut design wise. 

1. 
   deadnuts | Jul 26, 2015 04:22pm | #18

   Sure it can be removed and replaced-- if you're careful and it is not rotted. It is usually not integral to the door jamb and is added as trim element(s).

   I would recommend buying the book "Get Your House Right" by Marianne Cusato & Ben Pentreath (look specifically at pgs.151-153) to plan your exterior door casing or trabeated door surround. Right now yours is fighting between trying to be both. It does not need to be overly fancy and should not be expensive to buy the material you need to make this right. I recommend renting a bending brake to create your aluminum counter-flashings; or have a contractor friend make them to your specifications. They are going to be some of the most important components to keeping the weather from behind your entry trim.

1. 
   jimmiem | Jul 26, 2015 05:42pm | #20

   Deadnuts

   I just ordered the book.  Thank You for steering me to it.  Question for you.  A lot of the questions on this type of forum have to do with problems having to do with things that were not done correctly.  Is it because tradesmen don't know how to do it correctly, know how to do it correctly but don't take the time, don't care, etc.  I have been told by several subs that GCs don't pay the subs much on new house construction and they have to go fast to make $.  

1. 
   deadnuts | Jul 26, 2015 07:22pm | #21

   Subs are not employees of G.C.s. It's up to the subcontractors to demand proper compensation for doing professional work. If they are not able to do professional work, then it becomes a catch-22 and everybody in that situation is to blame. Unfortunately, the buyer is the one that gets left holding the bag.

   IMO the solution begins with the buyer demanding a better product--and paying for it accordingly. I won't hold my breath for that to happen on the production home building scale. It happens to larger degree in remodeling. That's why I practice this genre of construction.