Replies

1. 
   Davo304 | Apr 27, 2004 12:24am | #1

   Hi Andy.

   12 inch OC  joist spacings  are plenty good.... It could  practiaclly hold up a tank! 8 inch OC is waaay overkill, and 16 inch OC is the norm. Use whatever spacing you like...me, I'd opt for 16 inch centers. Your T&G flooring is 3/4 inch, right?  If so, 16 OC   for me.  12 inch centers are for heavy traffic, such as a balcony floor movie theater that seats hundreds of people. 8 inch OC...don't even go there.

   No need to put down a plywood subfloor for a porch floor...just install the T&G onto the joists. Make sure T&G flooring is primered/sealed on all sides and edges BEFORE installation. Makes for a longer lasting floor.

   Whats under your porch floor... a crawlspace?   If crawlspace is seperate from building envelope ( ie..not part of basement foundation) , then venting  the crawlspace will allow air circulation  to underside of porch floor. This, I would do.

   As for your stair treads....if you plan on pitching ...then pitch ALL TREADS down a bit...don't pitch just one or two and not the rest....you want all treads to look the same, and FEEL the same when being walked upon. Anything different from tread to tread leads to a person losing his or her balance.

   If your planned stair treads are all one piece treads, you can either pitch them downward ever so slightly ( just under a 1/4 inch at the front of the tread) to allow water run-off...or you can rip the treads lengthwise into 2 halves and install in  this manner, leaving a small gap in between when nailing both pieces down. This gap will allow water to  fall off the tread and will also allow air circulation for drying the tread.

   On exterior treads, I usually use 2 pieces, slightly gapped per tread; rather than a one-piece solid tread. Use a couple of 6d nails as spacers when setting the tread gaps. Gaps will widen over time due to wood shrinkage so err on the small side initially...keep gaps small, not large.

   Mahogany is a very nice wood. I prefer to keep nice looking woods in their natural state by sealing them and then varnishing them with a spar varnish that has UV inhibitors. If you are planning to paint your porches, then I would opt for something less costly. The norm in my region for  porch flooring is 1X4 T&G Southern Yellow Pine. Which, if I was going to paint, is the wood of my choice. Of course, all depends upon price and availability in your neck of the woods.

   The fact that you mention your house is 325 years old, leads me to believe it was an old farmhouse of some sort? If so, I seriously doubt your original porch wasn't painted. Porch floor may have been chestnut or long leaf pine? Whatever the species, unless this house was a former mansion, the floors probably were painted...so if authenticity is what you are after...painting would be the scheme of things I would think...don't you?  I would use a nice oil base enamel...stay away from latex for floor paint.

   AS for your balcony porch.... only one sure fire way to keep rainwater from eventually leaking through the floor boards down onto your 1st floor porch below...you need to put down a rubber (EPDM) membrane before installing your floor boards. And, your floor boards should be resting on sleepers so air can circulate...and the entire porch should be pitched downward just a bit toward the front to facilitate rainwater run-off.

   There is a product called Kwik Ply ( and a lot of similar ones out there too) . You would need to deck your porch with exterior plywood, then you "paint" this decking with an asphalt base primer, and then the Kwik Ply membrane is rolled out and adheres to your plywood decking. Once put down in place, this membrane WILL NOT come loose, so you must take great pains to position it and keep it wrinkle free  when installing. Any air bubbles will cause you to have to cut out that section and glue in a new section; which you don't want to do. Use a lineoleum roller as you go to smooth out the membrane and keep it wrinkle/bubble free.

   Once this initial membrane is down. install extra strips of membrane right on top of existing; where you plan to place your sleeper boards. Screw the sleepers through the membrane and into the plywood decking. The membrane shopuld seal around the screws and still keep water out. Once sleepers are in position ( 16 inch OC) install you decking.

   Just my 2 cents.

   LOL.

   Davo

1. 
   andybuildz | Apr 27, 2004 04:08pm | #3

   Davo

            thanks.very helpfull advice.

   I did plan on pitching every porch maybe a 1/8" per foot.

   Yep, it was a farm house.

   Most floors "weren't painted untill the owners before me painted em......ugh.....and owners before them put 2 1/2" strip floors over the older ones......dbl ughhhh.

   I may go with the pine outside and paint them cause as you said....I'm sure thats what it must have been back then.

   I'll investigate it further later on when I get up to that....(next week???)

   Thanks again for all the advice.

   Appreciate it

   BE well bro

                      andyMy life is my passion!

   http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

2. 
   andybuildz | Apr 27, 2004 06:00pm | #5

   Davo

          I have a full roll of a rubber roof that I could torch down for the second floor deck.

   What do you think of that? MAybe put some water and ice shield where my sleepers go cause thats self sealing.

   Any thoughts on that idea?

   thanks

          aMy life is my passion!

   http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

1. 
   johnharkins | Apr 27, 2004 08:48pm | #7

   hey Andy the Davo & Doud firm has given you some winning feedback but I have to get mine in / mostly cuz I saw the word mahogany

   that painted porch can be a marvelous thing esp. if you have a bead board ceiling with a natural finish - but if you don't you gotta go w/ that mahogany stuff will give that pop to seal the deal when you move to the left coast and start paying those insanely high premiums for sending your daughter to college

   it isn't some glossy jetted spa - it is a beautiful natural wood floor ** a compromise from the historical roots of your digs - you taint no farmer and it is unlikely one is going to buy

   your place

   you're married you make compromises every moment of your life ** this is one of the best of them

   that second floor deck - I like and I'm certain our colleagues here on board like the epdm Davo favors much more than your torchdown but having said that i think the downside of torchdown is the deleterious effect UV rays have on it but you are virtually eliminating that aspect w/ your decking over the top so to preserve those Carlyle vintage million dollars a sq ft floors below cover your floor sheathing w/ ice & water then top off w/ your torchdown only heating your generous 12" overlaps and then make your decking so it can be picked up by two people at most ( maybe 4' X 6' sections ) and your sleepers are your joists therefore part of the sections w/ no penetrations through that multiple membrane floor

   that cut edge of your sleepers should get say three coats of that Penofin like material you "used" on those mahogany porches below

   be decked John

2. 
   crosscutter1 | Apr 27, 2004 01:21am | #2

   hi 

    i understand why you dont want the plastic on a house from that time period  LOL

   but it is good for no maintinence

   anyway what type finish would you use on the mahogany ??

   i have heard penofin is great stuff for a natural wood finish i have also used sikens theyhave 2 diffrent systems one that you do all four sides like they did when they built your house . as far as the nosing on the stairs i happen to like all those details because i am a finish carpenter. as to the nailing i woulld really ask a supplier for a reps number also & ask him a little whats the mositure content in the wood ? stainless steel ring shake nails ?? & so on as far as 8" on center how will you nail the joists hangers you wont even fit a hammer in there . is the stock 3/4 or 5/4 ??

3. 
   DavidxDoud | Apr 27, 2004 04:48pm | #4

   ...my house is 325 years old so keep that in mind.

   well,  then,  what you need to do is take your ax,  (the ax should be of the straight handled,  pre-war design,  with the appropriate style head that matches the nationality of the original builder)  walk to your stand of white oak trees and commence...

   your frame should be approximately 8X8", so choose an appropriate sized tree and fell,  top,  limb, and buck - - ya want it to lay at a comfortable height to work.  strip the bark and snap a chalk line (squaring cord) - stand on the timber an using your long handled felling ax,  'score to the line',  then split off the piesces between the scores.  then standing alongside the timber,  'hew to the line' with your short handled broadaxe - rotate the timber 90* and repeat...

   often the bottom framing is half-lapped and pegged,  rather than morticed and tendoned - check your existing framing to see what is appropriate here...

   after you finish that,  then in the afternoon,  choose the trees to use for the flooring - again white oak or perhaps walnut or perhaps some kind of soft wood,  I'm not familiar with what is native/traditional for your specific area - - anyway,  fell the trees,  top, limb - hew to a beam and use your horse or ox to drag to your pre-prepared pit - now you can use a 'trestle' to elevate the timber,  or even a combination of pit and trestle if you have sloping ground -

   snap a line at approximately 1" intervals across your timber and using your 'frame pit saw' (the open saw didn't come about till app 1800) commence ripping - usually,  you would start with your wife in the pit (or box),  it's a little easier to pull down than pull up,  but you'll need to trade off after awhile - -

   so spend the afternoon generating enough planks for the flooring -

   the next day,  smooth planks to your satifaction,  apply the T&G with your set of planes

   you may need to manufacture your own nails,  if you need instruction on technique,  just ask...

   usually,  just a scrub finish on floors,  or you can apply a heated beewax concoction if your ambitious -

   hey,  glad I could help - DOUD

   "there's enough for everyone"
1. 
   ANDYBUILD | Apr 27, 2004 08:09pm | #6

   can I use applewood?"My life is my practice"