Replies

1. 
   MojoMan | Jan 14, 2004 02:53am | #1

   Moist, warm air is possibly getting into the attic. Check for major problems like dryer or bath vents dumping into the attic. Then look for penetrations from the living space that allow heated air to leak up there. It couldn't hurt to look for roof leaks while he's up there.

   Al Mollitor, Sharon MA

2. 
   BillHartmann | Jan 14, 2004 02:53am | #2

   Details?

   What is the age of the house? What is the construction?

   Any insulation in the attic? What is used for heating?

   Are there kitchen and bath fans and are they used? Are they vented outside or into the attic?

3. 
   fortdh | Jan 14, 2004 03:10am | #3

   To add to Bill's questions; has he had any modifications to the house, has central air been added, any duct work in the attic, pull down steps or central exhaust fan added? How is attic vented, has he noticed problem in previous years? Paul

   Energy Consultant and author of Practical Energy Cost Reduction for the Home
4. 
   richp0 | Jan 14, 2004 05:41am | #4

   One more thing to check in addition to Bill's list is the dryer vent.  Make sure it's not vented into the attic.  Often it (along with the bath exhausts) will have a hose run through the attic to a vent in the roof, but sometimes hoses come loose.  Then any moisture in your clothes just gets pumped into the attic.

5. 
   stewfossagain | Jan 15, 2004 01:21am | #5

   Hello all,

   Thanks for the ideas. I have my brother checking for further leaks of air from the house. there is no dryer vent or obvious scource of leaks. however I am certain it's getting in there somehow. Here are a few other bits of info I got from him. Attic is approx. 1400sq.ft. has soffit and ridge vents. the frost seems to be primarily on the north side of the roof. After the sun has been out there is a layer of mist on the top of the insulation above the ceilings. I wonder if it is possible that although the soffit and ridge vents seem ok they may not be able to create enough circulation to clear out the space. Does this seem remotely possible? He also said there was a slight problem with moisture in the summer as well but had a harder time determining the scope. I have checked the grounds carefuly and there are no signs of aliens or thier crafts,so I think we can rule them out. Thanks for your thoughts, uncle stew

1. 
   fortdh | Jan 16, 2004 07:34am | #6

   I think you have the answer, not enough ventilation out the ridge vent.

   This can be a problem with hip roofs that reduce the ridge length compared to a gable roof. Also, I have seen some filter material in ridge vents frost up, thus blocking the air flow even more. The extreme cold you guys are suffering may reveal problems not seen before.

   Bottom line, he needs to reduce the humidity reaching the attic.

   Frost in the insulation is not good for R-values. PaulEnergy Consultant and author of Practical Energy Cost Reduction for the Home

2. 
   IronHelix | Jan 16, 2004 11:44am | #8

   What is the humidity level in the house envelope?

   DO the windows sweat or frost?

   Is there a humidifier or lots of house plants or aquariums?

   Is there a gas heating system or water heater vent obstructed?

   Is there a "ventless" fireplace" or gas radiant heater?

   Is the kitchen stove used for "extra" heat when its so cold?

   Basement or Crawlspace that is overly damp or sopping wet?

   NO answers....just more questions!

   ................Iron Helix

6. 
   noitall | Jan 16, 2004 07:51am | #7

   I have seen this problem more on houses with tin roofs on strapping that are exposed on the underside to the attic. The worst was on a log home that obvoiusly did leak air into the attic. Is this anywhear even close to the situation you describe? I didn't see the type of roof finish and that is why I asked.

   Scott T.

7. 
   rjw | Jan 16, 2004 04:43pm | #9

   In addition to the other comments: Is the house on a crawl space? Is it a wet crawl? In most cases where I see signs of major moisture in the attic (such as what you are describing) the house is on a wet crawl space. (Most of the rest are on a wet basement, and only a few actually have the other problems mentioned here - but they should be considered, of course.)

   FWIW, You'll always get more condensation on the north side roof sheathing. It's colder both from reduced sunlight and increased radiation losses.

   I'd worry last about the vents - they treat the symptoms - you need to cure the problem of too much getting there in the first place.

   You/he might want to consider getting a weatherization expert in.

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8. 
   csnow | Jan 16, 2004 06:57pm | #10

   "I wonder if it is possible that although the soffit and ridge vents seem ok they may not be able to create enough circulation to clear out the space. Does this seem remotely possible?"

   I would not focus on the ventilation first.  If there is no warm/moist air leaking into the attic space, the ventilation is not needed.  In fact, better ventilation on a leaky structure can 'feed' the stack effect, and make matters worse.  Find the air leaks.

   When it is this cold, is is easy to see where the air is going by watching the smoke from a cigarette, smoldering match, smoldering piece of paper, or somesuch.  Obviously, be careful when playing with fire...