At the nature center where I volunteer we had trouble with the pipes freezing( and bursting) last winter. (we’re in SE WI)
The building is built on piers on sloped ground;the pipes are brought into the building from under ground through an insulated boxed in area then up between two walls.
The walls are insulated and open at the bottom; this seems backwards to me. I’ve attached a pdf drawing.
What is a good solution to this problem?
thanks
Chris
Replies
Frozen Pipes
>>>The walls are insulated and open at the bottom; this seems backwards to me.<<<
It seems wrong to me also, the idea is to keep any cold air off the pipes, I assume that the pipes are not insulated also?
They should be insulated to the frost line, and the box with no openings.
I suspect they "hang out"
I suspect they "hang out" like that because no one expected them to carry water through the winter. The water should be shut off and they should be drained down to at least several inches below grade each fall.
You could insulate the pipes, but it wouldn't do any good in a typical Wisconsin winter. The only thing that will work is to keep the pipes warm somehow. This means that heat from the building or ground must warm the pipes, or electric heat tape must be used.
Building an insulated box around the pipe from the ground up into the structure will work, but only if the box is large enough (at least 3 feet across, I'd guess) to establish convection, or if hot air from the structure is directed into the box (and forced to the bottom) somehow.
Your drawing indicates that the pipes are contained in a chase, or cavity, that runs from the ground up to the ceiling. Any cold air that finds its way thru leaks in the construction will drift down from the attic and freeze the pipes.
Also, the insulation that separates the chase from the heated rooms will also work to prevent room heat from keeping the pipes from freezing.
As DanH says, there are several ways to overcome this, but you are right in thinking that the setup was not built right to begin with.
I just went and checked under the building
The chase ( about 10 ft by 12ft) is insulated with about 3" of foam but not sealed completely, especially at the "door"
The floor of the chase is also insulated so I assume that the architect intended that the chase would be heated?
However the floor above is insulated (& covered in "smart board”) except where it opens into the building between the walls
I was thinking about opening the walls and putting in vents to allow air into the chase.
Chiris
That's not a chase, that's a room!
An electric heater with a thermostat you can set to about 35 to 40-degrees, and which is only accdesible from inside the chasem, or heat trace tape on the pipes, would be a better solution than opening the chase into the building. This could cause all sorts of problems with the heating system for the existing conditioned area. And, you really don't want this space to be too warm, just hot enough to keep things from freezing.
Depending on what is in the chase, and how the utilities are paid for, it might be most cost effective, to just leave a tap running. The problem with this is that some conservation minded person will turn it off.
We lost all the pipes in one of our houses last winter, when someone decided to turn off the furnace, because they were leaving for two weeks, and they couldn't see "wasting" the propane.
I just went and checked under
oops
Keep in mind that the drain pipes will freeze too.
Generally others are right. You need to enclose the piping into the heated envelope. Your situation is a bit wrong (you are right). Maybe some detail got missed when this was constructed which is causing your disconnect w/ the logic of it.
If you leave the structure unheated for long cold periods, you risk freezing. Remember, it is a misconception that simply insulating pipes will prevent them from freezing. An insulated pipe that has static water in it for extended cold periods will freeze at any exposed temperature below freezing. Actually in practice a bit below that temp as often internal convection in the pipe may maintain it somewhere below that. Insulation simply slows the heat loss, but lacking any added heat, it will eventually reach the freezing temp in the pipe ... just as your house will if you leave it unheated in cold weather. Eventually it will get cold enough to freeze. Energy doesn't just magically appear along with insulation. It simply slows the heat loss.
Theoretically if you skirted the structure w/ insulated skirting that is tight, you may prevent freezing because the heat gain of the ground may far exceed the heat loss through the skirting and maintain an above-freezing condition. It is generally the preferred method of construction for cold climates as making that connection with the ground (at say 50 degF) is better than exposing the floor to e.g. -20 degF.
Yeah, my suspicion is that the structure was never intended to be used in freezing weather, and that the pipes were expected to be drained for winter.
You may also want to swap out pipes that are more freeze tolerant, like PEX.
Pex is harder to thaw
The problem with pex is that even thought it won't typically burst, it will still freeze, and when it does it is harder to thaw.