Replies

1. 
   ~~BobL | Jan 14, 2004 06:56pm | #1

   I'd be interested in the responses to this question. I have almost the same problem with a second bathroom in my house. 

   Thanks,
   Barney

2. 
   BowBear | Jan 14, 2004 08:10pm | #2

   Perhaps I am not following you, but why not a heat trace wire with a thermostat? They are ubiquitous in the colder parts of Canada ie anywhere north of Pelee Island

   An ex-boat builder treading water!
1. 
   davidmeiland | Jan 14, 2004 08:39pm | #3

   Is it legal to install these in closed walls?

1. 
   BowBear | Jan 14, 2004 09:49pm | #4

   Good question. I don't know. Typically I've used them in basements, crawl spaces or attics. When I've installed them in an "enclosed wall" it has been after the wall was broken through to find the problem. We always put in an inspection hatch when repairing the wall to access the wire and electrical connections. The tapes come in various lengths and we have wrapped pipes for some distance. The inspection hatch can be some distance from the point of freezing. IMO There always is a level of fire hazard associated with heating tapes. They come with lots of warnings about doubling them, kinking them or placing them in constrained areas.We would always disconnect them except when freezing conditions were expected i.e. extreme cold, wind from a particular direction etc.

   Note: I am a DIY and have installed them for relatives and friends.An ex-boat builder treading water!

3. 
   WayneL5 | Jan 15, 2004 01:44am | #5

   I don't know if heat tracing can be enclosed in a wall.

   Really the best solution, if you can, is to reroute the pipes.  I lived on the Canadian border.  Good contractors there never run piping in an outside wall anywhere in a house, except for the outside faucets, in which case they install frost proof cocks.  If you can reroute the pipes it would be best.  Sometimes all it takes is to get them away from a single cold spot.  In an old home the pipes for the kitchen sink came up from the basement through the kitchen cabinet.  When the temperature and wind was just right they would freeze in that little 4" space between the cabinet bottom and the floor.  So, I rerouted the pipes to come in from the side of the cabinet, avoiding the troubled area.  It worked.

   You may be able to run pipes up through a closet or somewhere where they won't show but be fairly easy to run.

4. 
   KRettger | Jan 15, 2004 03:16am | #6

   Hey Fooch,

   During a recent cold spell here in Chicago, it got down to about 0 to 5 degree Fahrenheit.

   We do hi- end residential work in the North Shore area. Just today finished working on the third house that had frozen pipes. We would go in and open up the floors, walls, ceilings, whatever it took to get at the pipes and properly insulate the area the pipes were in. In all three instances the area where the facia/soffitt blended into overhangs in porches etc.. had not been properly sealed off and then the cold wind just blew right into the house between the walls and between the floor and ceiling in between 1st and 2nd floors.

   In one of these jobs after we finished opening up the areas around the frozen pipes the GC wanted the area insulated and then immediately closed back up. We said he ought to get a heater in the area and thaw the pipes out, but NOOOO, this fella just had to get the job wrapped up right then so there would not be a mess overnight in his clients home. That night it got real cold again, and the next day we got an emergency call to PLEASE come out and help because the frozen and not yet thawed pipes had burst and flooded the house during the night.

   Turns out it was the same crew from the same insulation company that had "insulated" all three of these multimillion dollar houses.

   My advice is to talk to a licensed and experienced plumber and follow his advice and guidance. You need to deal with this problem now before it causes you REAL problems and headaches.

   Good Luck,

   Cork in Chicago

5. 
   noitall | Jan 15, 2004 05:43am | #7

   I take it that the pipes are comming in through the bottom of a vanity.

   Could you cut out the bottom of the cabinet... then the sub floor to get at the problem area.. Then overlay a new bottom in the cabinet to cover the hole?

   Once you have gone that far could you move the pipe rout using flex and fishing it from where you can connect, closer to the warmth of the main house?

   Scott T.

6. 
   toast953 | Jan 15, 2004 08:46am | #8

   Nope, I do not know of any devices, if it were my own home, I'd probaly install      two-  8'' x16'' register vents, one in the 1st floor ceiling, and another in the 2nd floor, floor. In order for this to work, you have to be able to get air movement between the two register's. I like to work in this order,, safety , function, asthetics. Good Luck Jim J

7. 
   ravenwind | Jan 17, 2004 12:49pm | #9

   I thinkits time to open up the wall  and ceiling on first floor to gain access to the pipes and think about rerouting them its not that hard and will get rid of future headaches        another thing to quikfix it for now is to cut a hole in ceiling from below and cover it with a grate.  you might let some cold in but you could let some heat in to the pipes area.   dogboy

   
   

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   Edited 1/17/2004 4:54:22 AM ET by dogboy

8. 
   RichMast | Jan 17, 2004 04:28pm | #10

   With all the cold weather we've been having here(-5 at night), I was just talking to one of the guys at work who is a fireman - they get a lot of frozen pipe calls.  He said most of the guys there see frozen pipes only where cold wind can actually blow on the pipe, not in a well sealed wall, even if it's an outside wall.  It may be worth a check to see if there are any big leaks letting cold air into the cavity.

   This is in the northeast, not the real far north.

   Hope this helps.  Rich.