I’m PM for a small kitchen and bath company. We’ve got two owners – husband/wife team – a design assistant, me, and an installer who works as a sub.
The single installer doesn’t quite pay the bills, and we need a second one (not that my bosses can seem to find one, and yeah, the future of my job is in jeopardy). The guy we do have stresses me out.
The guy only works about 35 hours a week. Sometimes less. This is not good production, but he’s got us over a barrel. If he quit, the company would implode in no time flat. Apparently he’s making enough money at the rate he works. Maybe he’s getting paid too much.
In any case, I’d say he’s burned out and pretty much sick of his job as it is. Everything is too much trouble. . . much whining and much bitching. He seems itching for an excuse to quit, so he gets more than just a little tetchy when I bring up the subject of hours.
I’m not greatly experienced in this kind of work. I’ve been in my job for 11 months, and I’ve tried coaxing, threatening, etc. to try and milk more work out of him. Nothing has worked so well as simply letting him set his hours and work at his pace. If I push him to work more hours, he pulls a “go slow” on me for a few days, just to show me what slow really looks like.
Of course, when our installer doesn’t work longer hours, my boss takes that as an indication that I’m not doing my job. What am I gonna do – kick him in the nuts?
I don’t know. My superiors don’t seem capable of finding a second guy, let alone two new installers, or I’d say this guy needs to get fired. We need two guys, or I get the axe, because I’m too expensive. Finances are getting really pinched now; everyone’s tensed and pissed. I’m completely frazzled and burning out, and can’t stop thinking about looking for a new job.
Replies
He's holding the company back at the rate he's working. I would think your company would need 4 installer teams to call on so every one could be paid. This one guys pace is setting the pace for all of the install sales.
You will be out of work soon if you don't get another team or two on the books! Finding another team that can do a good job will take a bit more effort! Where are you located?
Four chiefs and one indian.
That's one heck of a markup.
Do you see what I'm saying, one installer is supporting five people and two businesses. That is not survivable.
SamT
Do you see what I'm saying, one installer is supporting five people and two businesses. That is not survivable.
I strongly agree. And the single installer is supporting all of those folks by working just 35 hours!
How long do you suppose it will take the installer to realize that he could drop the other three people, and support himself on just 8 or 9 hours a week?
Or that he could quadruple his income by going out on his own?
Methinks that the original poster might want to keep his thoughts in check.
Politics is the antithesis of problem solving.
"How long do you suppose it will take the installer to realize that he could drop the other three people, and support himself on just 8 or 9 hours a week?"That is not accurate either. Those people at the top ARE doing something - the design and the ordering and billing. For kitchen work that can easily be 40-60% of the job. And the installer may very well not have the people skills or design skills to do that top-heavy work. If he is already doing plumbing and electrical, as well as cabs and paint and drywall, you think he wants sales, book-keeping, design, and management thrown in on top?
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i live in a small town but i can hardly think of anyone that can plumb do electrical hang cabinets, paint, drywall, frame doors in, lay tile, do formica etc, I can but im 54 maybe could not do ALL those things well till i was 35 to 40 years old plus have all the tools for all those trades, O everybody sez they can when you hire them, I can plumb on a 4 trip to the supply house basis with 2 screwup minimum;)
>>I can plumb on a 4 trip to the supply house basis with 2 screwup minimum;)
LOL. Not to mention do you have the licenses needed for a kitchen or bath remodel.
You need lic to do that stuff but will do it if a plumber cant show up and they need the sink , pretty darn rare for me as i would be in the wrong in any dispute completely.
If you want to cost effectively increase your installers production, I would reccomend getting the guy a competent helper. If he's a journeyman, you could even offer an apprenticeship. It is my opinion 2 guys get the job done 3 times faster than 2, and within a few months, the guy should have some proficiency.
"I would recommend getting the guy a competent helper. "That won't work legally.He is a subcontractor, not an employee
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
If he is already doing plumbing and electrical, as well as cabs and paint and drywall, you think he wants sales, book-keeping, design, and management thrown in on top?
Dunno -- maybe not, but maybe so.
Politics is the antithesis of problem solving.
"I don't know. My superiors don't seem capable of finding a second guy, let alone two new installers, or I'd say this guy needs to get fired."
Absolutely NO WAY can you fire him.
He is a sub, not an employee.
Nor can you tell him how long to work.
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Unbelievable. Your employers are idiots thinking they can float a business like that with one guy actually doing the work. They need 2-3 install teams. I'm sending SamT up there to kick their buttz.
I don't know what your area is like, but freelance sub cabinet installers are not that rare. You need to loose the current get and get a few new ones. It sounds like he SUCKS!
Having been a PM for several years, I can tell you that it's the owner(s) that make or break it. I worked for 2 great bosses and 1 average one, and there is a massive difference. The great ones had great carpenters, great attitudes, great jobs, great clients, and treated me great too.
His company consists of 2 bosses, their assistant and a project manager.No carpenters. No tile setters. No electricians. No plumbers. Just one 1-man sub contractor.SamT
stepping back a second and looking at this from the installers point of view maybe hes the fall guy for the companys failure to get more help, maybe he resents the fact he is told he needs to do more, can you help one day a week till more help comes or the owner???
Biff,
A PM's job is to develope a work flow plan from Demo to final walk thru. He must also find sub contractors to perform the work. The PM has to coordinate all municipal services, disposal, and sanitary facilities.
Nobody can tell a (sub)contractor when to work. Nobody can tell him how to perform the work. The Client, that's your company, or to be more specific, your company's PM, can only give instructions in re specific results and time constraints.
In your case, Biff, you are the company's Production Dept. I don't know any of Canada's restrictions on Contracting, so I'll use California's system.
Someone has to be the General Contractor for work done on a house. That's your company acting thru you, the PM. In your company, either the husband, the wife, or you have to be licensed.
The GC reviews the plans and as builts and writes a scope of work for each trade in each phase. Theses Scopes get incorporated into each subcontractors contract.
Each subcontractor must give you an estimate of how long his work will take. From this, you must create a schedule with a time frame for each sub. Ask for several time frames from them when you give them their section of plans for them to estimate their bid from.
This phase goes fastest if you get a rep from each sub into one meeting so any conflicts can be worked out. This meeting can also be used as a general plan overview.
As the PM it is your responsibilty to maintain the production files for each job, and probably all the sub's files, too.
You haven't said what the H&W team does. I have been assuming that they are designers.
SamT
That is pretty much what I do, albeit on a small scale. We don't do a lot of jobs with multiple subs, other than the electrician we usually use.And yeah - my bosses are sales/design. Between they and the design assistant, they make up the design, contract, and order everything for the job. Then they slide the file over to me, and I check it for defects, make up a work package for our installer, put the job on the board, re-measure the site, have a pre-installation conference with the homeowner, and go over the site with the electrician and HO to develop an electrical plan. It's been quite the learning curve, seeing as I started less than a year ago, totally green.A big part of the problem with finding another installer is that my bosses want someone who can do absolutely everything, and do it well. For most jobs our installer does any plumbing, drywall repair, framing (mostly moving doorways and such), and minor electrical like wiring in a new bath fan. Whenever a prospective installer comes around, my bosses focus on what he can't do. I've been told that our current installer couldn't plumb and was useless with a drywall knife when he was hired seven years ago, but he learned. But now it seems that isn't good enough, and they want the whole package. These guys are scarcer than hen's teeth.Edited 7/31/2007 5:46 am ET by Biff_Loman
Edited 7/31/2007 5:48 am ET by Biff_Loman
If you think you are burnt out, imagine how bad you would be burnt if you were the single guy supporting all that top-heavy overhead!BTW, the right time for you to be4 checking things for defects is before they order, not after
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Good point.Actually, two good points. ;)
Edited 7/31/2007 5:53 am ET by Biff_Loman
Here's a thought find a drywall repair sub, an electrician sub, an plumbing sub, a flooring sub, and use your guy to do the handyman work, carpentry and tying up the loose ends. Wow just increased your companies capacity 5 times. You now have specialists that are faster and better and you are no longer venturing into the illegal territory of working without permits and doing plumbing and electrical without a license. I know it is legal in some areas for a contractor to do electrical and plumbing without those licenses but it is getting less and less. Your company is also exposed to an inordinate amount of liability by doing unlicensed work (if that is the case).
Good luck (If you haven't yet buy a book on construction management or contracting to get an idea what your competition is doing it sounds like you are a little isolated from your PM peers it's hard to learn how to do a job from the people you work for when they don't have a clue how to do your job.)
Jason
Biff,
Just one more thought; it's hard to learn how to do a job from the people you work for when they don't have a clue how to do your job.SamT
Edited 7/31/2007 1:51 pm by SamT
You said it.
I just wanted to say , I agree 100 % with your thoughts."it aint the work I mind,
It's the feeling of falling further behind."Bozini Latini
A big part of the problem with finding another installer is that my bosses want someone who can do absolutely everything, and do it well. For most jobs our installer does any plumbing, drywall repair, framing (mostly moving doorways and such), and minor electrical like wiring in a new bath fan.
by having your one guy do everything, you are missing out on the opportunities to network with other trades and ask them about other people who would fit the bill. My primary HVAC guy was referenced by my electrician. Electrician and plumber sort-of referenced each other. When I need labor I sub a company who has 9 guys, (I am a single operator). This place was refered by a flooring guy.
Also ask at the lumberyard and suppliers. I doubt your bosses are traveling in the right circles to find these type of people.
And having a few extra players could motivate your existing worker. Right now he has no competition, why should he improve?
Bowz
"A big part of the problem with finding another installer is that my bosses want someone who can do absolutely everything, and do it well."They've taken project managing away from you and made you the Supers' secretary.The first requirement in a PM wanted ad is the ability to manage multiple subs.Until you resolve that issue, there is nothing you can do.I suggest you have a sit down with the owners and find out what their dreams are for thier company. If they specifically say they want to remain small so they can have lots of time off, you need to find another job.If they say anything else, get back to us BT'ers.SamT
Hi Biff, I am actually a finish carpenter who used to work in house for a high end cabinet dealership. I was esentially hired to do the job you had described yourself doing. Then I was asked by the 1 installer to help with deliveries and on the first day of install just to move stuff around. later I was sent on small service calls. 3 years later I was a full time installer and the company's project manager (60 hrs a week). We had put together teams of subs to assist when things were busy. advance scheduling is key but since you know the lead time on the cabs, that isn't too hard to do.
grant it it was more work than I wanted to do but the work was rewarding as were the jobs. I only left because of the hours. What I am trying to suggest is maybe you could assist the installer on the initial days (plenty of stuff an inexperienced guy can do).
You might have fun, the guy mught respect you more and more work will get done.
Perhaps this would encourage your boss to hire a helper for this guy. I've always felt two man teams get the most work done on a cabinet install. As for the idea of subcontractors, talk to some of the local builders see if they have a finish carpenter who might be looking for occasional install work. put together a working relationship with a few of these type of occasional subs (everyone has holes in there schedules from time to time) and you have more options when one says he can't fit one in, ask the next one on the list. good luck,jayfeel free to bounce ideas off me, I've spent a good ten years dealing with cabinet dealerships and installs."it aint the work I mind,
It's the feeling of falling further behind."Bozini Latini
You don't own the company. Don't get stressed over someone else's problem. You can't make the owners do what they need to do, and you didn't cause the problem. If you take it personally you'll damage your own sanity for something you can't control. Bail out and leave the owners to their own doing.
I would say that I agree not to make the owners problem your problem. I know you fear loosing the job but it sounds to me as green as you may be, you are thinking and have good ideas. people will see that in you and hire you if you just be yourself (no pointing fingers or blaming). tell the owners that as their project manager, you have put togather a plan to deal with the installation work load and would like a chance to implement it. review the plan in detail, accept criticizm or additional ideas, finalize the plan and then have it be agreed upon that they will not interfere with the agreed upon plan for a 4 month period to see how you do. then work you a** off to make it happen. If they don't bite, then suggest they don't need a project manager (a bluff).
Designers / owners who are desperate will crack at this point."it aint the work I mind,
It's the feeling of falling further behind."Bozini Latini
we had one like that, could not keep him happy, so boss bought this poster and hung over his desk