I am installing a shower and was looking for a full flow shower body. I don’t want a balanced or pressure sensing unit if I can avoid it. This shower will be used only by me and I am not afraid of someone flushing a toilet and scalding me since the water temp. is kept low at the water heater. I am looking for more volume.
One of the showers in the house is about 50 years old and has incredible water pressure. The other one is fairly new and has the anti scald feaure and has nowhere near the flow. It is not horrible since I removed the flow restrictor from the shower head but I am spoiled by the old shower.
Is it possible to buy one of the old style still – like for commercial applications or something or can one be “built” from valves and made to work?
Water use is not an issue and I have sewers so septic is no problem.
I am still in the design phase so all options are available.
Thanks.
Replies
pretty much, no. guvmint pertectin' us from ourselves!
Actually, I'd try Restoration Hardware, or Renovators Supply, or Bathroom Machineries. I'm sure they've had the question come up before.
Alternatively, just use 3/4" ball valves with pretty handles. I've done that to fill a big tub fast.
Forrest - actually, I should say "quickly" but "big tub fast" sounds better
That is sort of what the old shower design is. It has 4 seperate cross handles - hot and cold to fill the tub and hot and cold feeding the shower head. There is no diverter - I can have the tub filling and the shower on at the same time.
Can I construct this from a couple of valves and some elbows and a tee to feed the shower head? Do you know if there are standard escutcheon plates to fancy it up a bit?
My old system is American Standard and I can still get the repair stems (no cartridges - too old) for it. I wonder if American Standard still has the housing for the stems? I guess that would be "illegal" to sell however.
Would ball valves be ok to use? It seems like they are harder to regulate than old fashioned gate valves.
This is new shower and has to look good but it won't be inspected since no one knows it will be there. I know I am being a bad boy for not getting a permit but on Long Island (or should I say lawn guyland) they tax for everything they can think of.
Thanks.
A 3/4 Grohe valve flows 18 GPM @ 60 PSI. That same valve will flow 16 @ 45 and 21 @ 75. Bump up the pressure to 90 (your well tank is not going to like you for it however) and your at 23 GPM.
Unless you have a great well pump, it's going to be a bitch to keep up.
I'm flowing near 14 GPM max thru that valve into 7 heads but I have balance loops and you don't want to build them. Their champagne heads will move some serious water with the restrictor removed.
I will look into that. I have 70psi city water service - no wells nor septic system where I live. About the only good thing about dense population.
Do all of the grohe valves flow the same or do I need a specific part #?
Thanks.
When I shower now it reminds of the Steven Wright bit - " I like to fill the tub with water, turn on the shower full blast and pretend I am in a submarine that has been hit"
You can never have enough water flow nor pressure.
Grohe, product # 34 902 Sorry it's a 1997 vintage number. It's easily cross referenced.It's the rough in thermostat valve only. You need to add the volume control. Just be sure to use nothing but 3/4 NPT valve bodies.I have old spare heads on the shelf. I'll get that number as I don't have it handy.The stuff is not too bad on the jobber price scale. It will move some water. I've spec'd and built a few. I can get exact numbers 3-7-08. All the cut sheets are at the other house.BE SURE you have enough water entering the building. They have a great website with all the needed information.
<<<It is not horrible since I removed the flow restrictor from the shower head >>>
How dare you. You are killing the planet, you selfish, consumeristic American. You probably have full flush toilet too! And you probably use incandescent light bulbs and drive an SUV.
(kidding)
Sorry, I need the water flow to wash off the #### from the coal fired power plants being built in China and India that have no pollution controls. How come we have to "clean up" our act but the third world nations get to act like its 1908 instead of 2008.
Do we really think my 1.6 gallon versus 3.5 gallon toilet makes much of a difference when 2.5 billion people are coming out of the stone age with no regard for all of the advances the civilized world has made in the past 100 years? When I hear that our Olympic athletes can't go to Bejing too early because the air is so polluted they won't be able to train since they can't breathe, it make me suspect that the regulatory agencies really have my best interest at heart when they won't let me take a nice shower or empty my toilet with 1 flush.
Sorry for the rant. I just hate that we (americans) are always seen as the bad guys.
Sorry to counter-rant, but we Americans are indeed the bad guys all too often... the rest of the world is just following our lead.
The third world would tell you that the US got to be the wealthiest nation on earth by doing whatever it pleased for well over 100 years without regard to the consequences to the environment or anything else. We are far from cleaning up our act. Now the third world wants it's shot! We just showed them how to consume without limit and yet continue to preach "do as I say, not as I do."
Nevermind that there is now way the whole planet can live like we do. There's not enough land or fossil fuel. The world is just trying to be like us, so until we actually lead by example, they will continue to ignore our protests.
End of counter-rant.
If the planet's going to use up every last drop of all the oil, coal, and gas before wholeheartedly switching over to renewable energy, then lets hurry up and get it done. I have to go now and drive my (small) SUV to a strip mall built on what was the best farmland in the world. ;-0
I agree that we are nowhere close to being as responsible as we can or should be. When I see a single person driving a suburban or God forbid an escalade as a commuter car it drives me nuts and I can see why the rest of the world hates us. We are truly ugly americans.
That being said, I don't think other countries should duplicate all of our transgressions just because it is "their turn". Should we allow them to own and then free slaves because we did it first (actually not even close to being first but you get the point) or should we "enlighten" them with what we have learned?
Case in point - many developing countries are bypassing hard wired phone systems and going directly to cellular technology. Should we encourage that or should we drive up the price of copper even further so that China can put a landline in every house as a first step? We had our industrial revolution and now are in the midst of a technological revolution. Should we force/allow others to have there own industrial revolution or give them access to our advanced technology so they can enjoy a better living standard without raping the planet like we did.
I just seems to me that all of our progress in fuel economy and emission controls and polution mitigation will be useless if we allow others to relive our mistakes.
Sorry for the political nature this took, but I really just want to take a nice shower without big brother telling me I can't.
You said you took out the flow restrictor. Have you also taken apart the shower head to see where the restriction is? You might be able to drill something out and get more flow...
Next time there's a war in Europe, the loser has to keep France.
No apologies necessary... I am right there with you having removed the restrictors from my own shower heads (mostly due to vibration issues). But I do believe that low flush toilets have saved a lot of water for us all.
Of course there are exceptions... I was in Lowes a couple of weeks ago and used their bathroom. A toilet was running continuously due to a broken valve. Of course, no shutoff in sight. At what I believe was a 2.5 gpm rate for that valve, the water being wasted was tremendous.
When I pointed this problem out to a manager, she was somewhat annoyed and simply replied "we know." When I asked when it would be shut off, she simply said "someone's on it" faked a phone call and walked away. Nice. I'm guessing that toilet had been running quite a while and would be running quite a while more.
As for the rest of the world, well it would be nice if the two most populous nations on earth could do things right the first time in their march toward modern life. Call me cynical, but it will never happen as it costs money. They'll poison their countries first just like we did.
<<<But I do believe that low flush toilets have saved a lot of water for us all.>>>I disagree. I have two older full flow toilets. When I take a Cr@p I flush once. On the newer "low flow" toilet I typically have to flush at least twice to get the bowl clean. How does that save water? Another triumph of good intentions over reality.Besides is water really ever wasted. The water goes through the waste treatment plant, evaporates, condenses in a cloud, and returns back to the earth as pure rain water. Short or polluting a body of water how can you "waste" water??
I agree that the low flow toilets are good in theory but lacking in practice.
My first experience was an american standard 1.6gal. It clogged w/ toilet paper the first time it was used.
I went back to the store (hd I must admit) and asked the plumbing "expert". He pointed to the next aisle and said " the plungers are over there". I said he must be mistaken this was a new toilet and must be defective. He laughed and said "the plungers are over there". Sure enough we now keep a plunger in the vanity in the bathroom since any more than 4-5 sheet of paper ( i live w/ 4 women) tends to clog it.
My old toilet (5gal flush) is always up to the task - taco bell, chinese food, you name it.
I had a 3.5 gal flush that was okay and I guess if I flush the 1.6 twice there is no real savings.
And, yes I did drill out the shower head - a Speakman 6 nozzle same as on my other shower so I know it is the shower body not the head nor the pipes (3/4" copper throughout).
I will look into the Grohe and maybe take out a second mortgage to buy one.
Thanks again.
Water is easily wasted unless you seal yourself in a Ziploc bag. ;-)
As an example, in the arid west, water is being pumped from aquifers (search on Ogallala aquifer) that were filled millions of years ago and are not being replenished. The water is wasted when it is pumped out, evaporates, but then rains down again elsewhere never to see that aquifer again.
Fresh water is also not free. In an industrialized country where natural filtration by the ground is not fast enough, we use energy ($$$) to process our waste water and then more energy to pump it. Using 3+ gallons of water to deliver a few ounces of waste to the treatment plant is a waste if less will do.
I'll grant you all toilets are not created equal. While mandating the amount of water used, the government forgot to mandate the performance. It's obvious that certain toilets in today's market are so bad that they should not be sold.
I have had no problems with my Kohler Cimarron flushing any quantity of paper and waste. It's never clogged.
<<< As an example, in the arid west, water is being pumped from aquifers (search on Ogallala aquifer) that were filled millions of years ago and are not being replenished. The water is wasted when it is pumped out, evaporates, but then rains down again elsewhere never to see that aquifer again. >>>The water is not wasted, or lost, just relocated. I live within close proximity to Lake Michigan. Why should I have to have a low flow toilet or low flow shower? Ridiculous, one-size-fits-all government regulation caused by the religiously zealous environmentalists.