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Discussion Forum

full replacement window with old trim

Taylor | Posted in General Discussion on May 5, 2006 02:09am

As part of improving my home’s energy efficiency, I’d like to replace my Home Cheapo-special handyman-installed cheap plastic crap windows (blame the PO) with energy efficient windows. I’ve been looking for well-engineered fiberglass windows, and may finally have found them. However the windows I’m looking at are only made as full replacement windows, because the makers point out you can still lose a lot of energy around the original wood frame if you put in an insert. My house has 75 yo plaster+wood lath walls and oak trim. I don’t mind replacing the exterior trim with Miratec (I think), but I’d like to preserve the original interior trim.

Question: Anyone have experience doing full replacment while preserving interior trim and plaster walls? Am I kidding myself that this can be done? Clearly the trim must come off, I figure if it’s my house I can take the time to go slowly removing it, strip the paint, put it back on when the window is in. Full replacement also gives me the opportunity to properly flash the window on the outside (currently the caulk gun is my friend). The casing is about 5″ wide, so I assume I can cover any reframing of weight pockets with the trim. And screws instead of nails….

If anyone is wondering why not wood windows: I will be putting wood in a few high-profile areas, for aesthetics, but in general I’m really disappointed in the NFRC ratings for wood windows. Look at the U-rating for the Marvin picture window. I’m looking at some well-engineered vinyl windows, but I worry that long-term vinyl may be a poor choice for a window material.

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  1. WNYguy | May 05, 2006 03:13pm | #1

    The previous owners of my home replaced 9 of the original windows with new vinyl units.  Three different sizes.  All interior and exterior trim was left in place.  Only the original sash and parting beads were removed.  The new units were sized to fit exactly in opening. 

    Since the new window frames AND sash sit where just the original sash was, there's slightly less total glass area.

    I'm in the process of ripping out the new stuff and replicating the old windows, but I am VERY happy that the previous owners didn't destroy any of the original trim work.  This is an 1830s house.

    Allen

    1. User avater
      Taylor | May 05, 2006 03:18pm | #2

      I realize inserts are the easy way of replacing without touching trim. That's what I have now. I have an attractive replacement window that does not include insert as an option. I still want to preserve the trim.

  2. ETG | May 05, 2006 03:31pm | #3

    One factor that you should consider is how repairable are the fiberglass windows and how easy are they to open.  In the Mid-Atlantic with energy prices soaring, folks are begining to open their windows more and spring balance windows are hard to open, particularly for older people.  It's the initial opening that's the problem - once they are halfway, the spring (or string balance) takes over.  As our population ages, I see more complaints about how hard windows are to open and close.

    And many of these folks remember the well balanced wood windows with weights that took only you little finger to open.  And repairing vinyl/composition windows is difficult - in the past year I've had to order several sash units - not because of glass/seal failure but because of split/cracked vinyl where screws for the pivot pin have just torn out.

    My own house is a historic site so I use wood replacements - but I just buy the sash/jamb liners - Jeld-Wen and Marvin both have them.  I leave the interior alone and work from the outside, making sure there is plenty of insualtion around the frame and then new wood casing around the exterior to match the old.  Works well.

    1. User avater
      Taylor | May 05, 2006 03:43pm | #5

      I'm only looking at casements, for energy efficiency reasons. I'm not even sure these come in wood inserts. Although DHs are more traditional around here, I dropped a dime to get an archie's opinion and he didn't see a problem with it. The house is a 20s era local mongrel.My suspicion is PO tore out all of the old weighted windows and put these monstrosities in just before he put the house on the market.

      1. ETG | May 05, 2006 04:05pm | #7

        If they look good, casements are the most efficient window. They close with a positive seal just like a door.  I would still look at leaving everything intact inside and working from the exterior since you said you want to put new exterior casing up anyway.

  3. MikeHennessy | May 05, 2006 03:37pm | #4

    Sure. No big deal, IF your replacements are carefully sized to match the existing. Since you don't have to worry about trashing your existing windows, you can use a combination of carefully applied prybar and sawzall/mini-hack to loosen and cut the nails from behind your trim to remove it without butchering it. Pop in the new units and re-install the trim & stool.

    Mike Hennessy
    Pittsburgh, PA

  4. Dudley | May 05, 2006 04:02pm | #6

    I did it and still do it -- takes 3 hours start to finish per window -- did 39 on my existing house -- here is what I did -- from the inside you would not know there was a change because all trim and plaster were left undisturbed --(53 year old house --solid brick).

    From the inside, remove the sashes, then run the skill saw around the leading edge of the stool and the the interior moulding, use a chisel to cut away what the skill saw cannot reach, build a 3/4" frame left right but not for the bottom (window sits 1/2" above the masonary sill - insulate and put backer rod in and caulk the window to the masonary sill), and wrap with coil stock, slide the new unit in and set with ss trim head screws.

    Did it over a Summer and the house from the outside, look like the windows were upgraded and look fantastic.  Andersen has some 600+ d/h sizes and each one fits with a whisker to spare -- what a difference in appearance, maintenance, heat/cooling and most importantly, (because we live on a busy road) the noise reduction -- we lost the 1950's look with alu storms and it just cleaned the whole house up.



    Edited 5/5/2006 9:46 am ET by Dudley

  5. CAGIV | May 05, 2006 09:11pm | #8

    I'll probably be banned for suggesting Pella, though Pella does have a new line of Fiberglass windows that can be ordered as replacement windows.

    Find a local Pella dealer and ask for the details.

    Team Logo

  6. DanH | May 05, 2006 09:44pm | #9

    The main problem you'd have with the interior trim, if it's relatively conventional, is finding a new window that's close enough in size to the old one that the old trim fits. You basically need the inside dimensions between the side jambs and top jamb to sill on the new windows to be within about 1/4 inch of the same measurements on the old windows (more or less, depending on how much "reveal" there is).

    You can maybe get new windows manufactured to this tolerance, but it'll cost an arm, and there's enormous room for "miscommunication".

    Otherwise the inside trim is the easiest part.

    If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison

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