Neighbor wants a patio cover, saw and liked my work done for another neighbor, contacted me to build a small patio in back. Limited budget, time-crunch, undecided on a design, but they want a lexus on a kia budget, etc. all the usual stuff. No problem. Huge black guy with a petite little oriental wife.
But what I feel funny about is this: Like three times now, the guy (who lives one block over, and is a gardener for several of my neighbors), or both of them together, just show up, either on my doorstep ringing the bell insistently, or pulled up in front of my house honking for me to run out and see what the problem is. When I mosey out to see what’s up, they kinda get demanding, like Well, do you have a bid price yet, or Well, have you come up with a design yet?
So, what’s the best way to handle this? I don’t really need this little project (budget 3k) right now, but I don’t mind helping a neighbor out. But I feel like writing “Contact by phone or email only”, or words to that effect, in the contract.
The job I did for his neighbor was a pleasure (converted a bedroom into an elaborate home office) – no problems, straight T&M, paid on time, etc.
But I had another T&M job for a guy down my street, that went south big-time. Turns out the guy was bi-polar and paranoid, maybe even schizo. Would come out every morning friendly as could me, complement me, then add more to the scope of work. Then he’d drive by twice a day to “check” to see if I was really working. At end of day he’d scream at me for taking too long, and for running to the lumber store for supplies, saying one trip was all it should take. But he was the one adding to the scope of the job, necessitating extra materials. And the supply store is like two blocks away. Really.
Anyway, I finally just told him I couldn’t work for him at any price, hire someone else to finish the job. I left some folding horses at his job, and he didn’t want to let me have them when I came to get them. I almost ended up punching him out over it. I grabbed them, he grabbed them, and I drug him and them out in the street because my older brother always told me if you’re gonna punch somebody, never do it on their property. He finally let go, but wouldn’t talk to me for almost a year.
Later, I gave him a bottle of wine and said Look, lets just be good neighbors and forget about the rest. Now he’ll talk to me, but there is still a bit of static in the air when I see him.
I don’t wanna go that route again. Because for one reason, this guy would likely clean my clock, and besides, who wants to fight with their neighbors anyway?
Anyone else run into this situation?
CaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
Replies
Yep, tell him you are too busy.
Price the job as you would normally. A lexus price for a lexus job. Down payment to place him on the scedule. Your schedule at your convenience.
Standard boilerplate contract. Emphasize the change order policy. Cash on the barrelhead for each change.
Front load the payment schedule so that everything is paid for before the final payment is due. Final payment should not be so high that you have to eat beans and franks til the next job.
And, if you have to come up with the design, that's a separate price and a separate contract. Down payment to start the design. If he pays the final on the design, give him the design, otherwise, he gets to see it but not hold it.
I like Ralfph's third suggestion, just some paper work and office time, spent and see how he reacts. I always feel that the first encounter is a two way street, I have some questions that I bring up that tell me alot about the person and whether I want to work with them or not. It's also about that "feeling" you get about people. Follow your instincts, I feel I have the right to say no to a job.
Never fear the want of business. A man who qualifies himself well for his calling, never fails of employment.
Thomas Jefferson
3rd president of US (1743 - 1826)
Tell him you're busy with other work, and give him a reference to your best competitor. Sometimes the best deal is the one you don't make.
I had those feelings also before.
Did the job with the exact results as you described.
Now I follow these feeling. However: if you are neighbors and you are not busy and they see you "lounging", they know you lied to them. That does not make for good neighbors either.
Tell him this job will not work out for either of you and he is better off hiring somebody else.
If you take the job and it goes sour, there will always be somebody in the neighborhood who will take sides with the other party and that is just bad publicity which you dont need.
Walk away
Got red flags. Just say you can't do the job right now. Far better to say no up front than to bid it high and get into an impossible situation.
------------------
"You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."
When i was first learning i worked for a very smart man, He took on an addition for a huge black man with a tiny white wife, I worked on it and it was a good job but the guy wanted more for free, My boss was wise and wanted written change orders, Anyway i think this fellow had been used to being a bully and he went ballistic maybe he was frustrated my boss out witted him at every step, At any rate he tore up the job and broke all the windows, I was just a helper and lucky for me the guy liked me so i just left as the police came, Now im sorry to even mention the big guy was black as that should have nothing to do with anything but i never forgot his weird mindset.
...lets just be good neighbors and forget about the rest.
Tell this guy the same thing. Let him know that you don't appreciate his coming to your house. Explain that you are obviously too busy to meet his schedule, and recomend he find someone who isn't.
Neighbor across the street moved in two years ago. Saw my truck and signage and asked me to do some work. The wife was a pleasure to work with. The husband....who is out of town for long stretches of time ....is another story. He asks for an estimate and becomes visibly upset if I don't have it the next day. Has actually walked across the street to tell me a soap dish (in his 50 YO bathroom) has fallen, and when can I get to it? If it's not sometime this afternoon, he groans and mumbles.
I have given them estimates for a dozen projects since they moved in. They have accepted and done two of them. When he came to me about adding a portico to the front of the house, I told him "no more". I explained that I was very busy, and that his budget was unrealistic. Rather than my taking the time to work up another estimate for his garbage pail, I'd prefer we remained the freindly neighbors that we were.
All has been well since.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
As was mentioned earlier, politely tell the couple you are too busy to commit, AND give them a reliable reference that they can fall back on to contact...that way you are not totally ditching the job...instead you are playing the role of the gracious neighbor who reluctantly can't do the job ( "due to unforseen circumstances"), but are still helping them; in a round about way.
Never commit to a job when your gut tells you "NO." Nomatter how much money you think you can make off the job.
And, its best to ply your trade outside your immediate neighborhood, for the simple reason you mentioned earlier about your "run-in" with your other neighbor's job. If the only good jobs you can find are located in your own neighborhood, you need to ask yourself why...and if you can't figure out the answer, you need to look into another line of work...cause one neighborhood cannot sustain your livelihood.
Davo
Unless you're a roofer and your name is Hazlet.
Peaceful,easy feelin'.
The neighbor has already crossed the line - time to get away with as little pain as possible. I really like the idea of referring him to your most talented competitor. Think about it this way:
What is on the table: $3k (YAWN)
if the project goes well you get high points with both your competitor and your neighbor. Both owe you a favor for hooking them up.
If the project goes south then you are neutral with the neighbor ("Dang, Dave and Co. builders always did great work! Go figger") and still at a positive with the competitor ("Hey man, I referred work to you ... how was I to know" type of thing). Yep, you're playing them both off of each other to paint YOU in the best light. And...?
If you take the project and it goes great you get $3k and the oportunity for all of your neighbors to deman a lexus for Kia pricing. Great! Permanent 30% off sale and a full calendar of people with more money in their pockets because there is less in yours.
If you take the project, which already stinks, and it goes downhill then would you PAY $3k to get away from it? We've all been there (you dang near got in a fistfight over sawhorses up the block man, do you even want the chance of that happening again?)
My day job (not construction) entail a lot of these tradeoffs. A L W A Y S follow your gut. This one smells like poo already.
On the race note ... don't get caught up in worrying that you're being racist. Racism is when you have unalterable preconceptions of someone based on their heritage. In contrast, cultural genarlisms are based on previous experiences but are always open to redefinition as your experiences grow. Not wanting to get you a$$ kicked over a dinky deck? That's just self-preservation ...
Bad sign right up front.
I'd be telling him you are NOT interested in working for somebody who is so rude as to bother you at home this way
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
It sounds like the guy likes to be or expects to be in control of things to the point others are uncomfortable.
Unless you like to be controlled by someone who doesn't have a clue what they are doing, I'd make up something to get out of it.
If the guy has your phone number or email yet he comes over and honks the horn at the curb he has some problems with appropriate boundaries. He would need a firm hand to control them during the job.
Is he drunk when he just pops over? Is he the insistant one or his wife?
Edited 1/28/2008 10:25 am ET by popawheelie
"ringing the bell insistently, or pulled up in front of my house honking for me to run out".
Is just plain rude and inconsiderate.
I was wondering if he runs a landscape business or is the guy pulling weeds but it does not really matter, his action show that he be unreasonably demanding.
Don't move forward with this guy,
be busy
I have a serious problem with people just showing up at my home. I might have forgiven his first contact if he wanted you to do work for him & didn't have a number but after that he surely must have had a number to contact you. There should have no more uninvited visits & if he had come to my house & blown the horn expecting me to respond to him he would either still be sitting there or in the hospital depending on my mood that day.
Huck
Just tell him you have a real strict NEW policy of NOT WORKING FOR NEIGHBORS!
You gave it serious thought and on past experiences you decided it was in your best interest to start doing that. End of story. You can drop the new part.
6 months later a good job that you feel will work out comes along you can take it, if he catches you working around the corner tell him you changed your policy. It sounds like you are a nice guy other wise you would not be worrying so much about it. You really do not owe him a detailed explanation.
The other route is price it high enough to make any pain in the neck worth it.
Wallyo
Like everyone else has said, the red flags are overwhelming on this one. I'd make an excuse about additional work being added to your current job, thank him for considering you, give him a couple of names and phone numbers for higher end contractors and wish him the best of luck.
My experience with working for neighbors and friends has often been less beneficial than anticipated, for me anyway. So with the exception of other tradespeople, I've avoided that kind of job, made it my policy to keep friendships and business separate.
oh the life of a contractor
if there remains a notion to proceed w/ this couple i would think it is time for a line to be drawn like there are too many ways to go with this & for them not to waste their time w/ you & vice versa we need to sit down ( w/ patio idea books etc. or the like ) and focus on a few alternatives & I do this for $ 40 / hour
what does one get for $3,000 ? I'm thinking three yrs ago ipe deck started at $30 / sg. ft & bluestone the same in an ideal scenario10 X 10 little deck or patio - obviously narrow perspective but an indication of what results one could expect
I have maybe a slightly different take on this.
If, in your opinion, this guy already stepped over the line then tell him whatever you want . . . too busy, or unrealistic budget, or no-work-for-neighbors policy, or you're a jerk and bow out.
But if he's a bit difficult (and only you can decide that) make your estimate reflect the extra aggrivation that you will incur.
I'm good a dealing with difficult people. Not that I like it mind you, but I usually make my price and contract reflect the situation as I perceive it. A few times I've actually been wrong about my initial negative impression of some people.
Good replies all - and the reason I come here for advice. I went today, and met with the wife. Told her I was too busy to give her small project the priority they want, and that I anticipated problems with her husband calling on me at my home. I told her I was a creative type who does not respond well to pressure, and felt I would not be a good match for them. Recommended another guy for the project (who's grass this guy cuts, so they already have a business relationship in one direction).
The response? She apologized for her husband's actions, promised he would not do it again, and asked me if I would consider doing her project when I finish the ones I'm on now, and also a kitchen remodel too. I said I'd think about it, especially if they did the kitchen and patio at the same time. Later in the day the husband called me, apologized, and said he hated being pressured also, and did his best work when his customers just leave him alone.
Who knows how this one will turn out?View Image “Good work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product” – Charles GreeneCaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
In light of the latest info, there is another take on the doorbell, and honking.The guy is a 'familiar' kind of guy.Once he decides he likes you, and/or wants to deal with you, suddenly, yer family.He does landscaping... He was already out and about.The doorbell was when he was feeling a bit more formal, the honking was when he started feeling more familiar.If he apologized, he understands his mistake. You may not have any trouble, after all. Just keep an eye on the situation, and don't let him start to feel like it is ok to bother you at home.
Yeah, it may be cold, but at least it's a wet cold !
Doesn't it feel nice to be wanted!
I've been there too. I had a customer who wasn't holding up her end of the deal and I called a few days before I was supposed to start to cancel. She BEGGED me to do the work we had discussed and promised to provide what she was supposed to. She did and I did the work. Everything worked out, but I doubt if it would have if I hadn't let her know that I was not about to be pushed around.
Much like my customer, your potential customer will never know the aggravation their behaviour caused you. For example, if you're like me, you agonized over what to say before you went to meet with her. A meeting, by the way, that they should not have made you feel was necessary.
If you take on this job, I hope it works well.