I have a slab home approximately 3500 sq feet, exterior walls predominately glass, mostly hardwood and tile with two counterflow furnaces approx 85’ apart. Both heat half the house, are 17 years old and should be replaced. Last four HVAC trades I called didn’t show. 1. Do I replace both with a modular high efficiency down flow furnace, or 2. Do I use a single air/air heat pump and pump the Freon to two separate units.or 3. Do I rip up the floors, cut groves in the concrete for radiant piping, replace the floors and install a boiler. I live in the north west on the 49th parallel in a place called Tsawwassen. Same climate as Bellingham WA or Seattle Wa. I look forward to your observations. Thanks Sword.
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Choose an HVAC contractor you can trust and go with his/her evaluation and advice.
"Ask not what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive... then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
Howard Thurman
Edited 3/23/2009 1:18 pm ET by rjw
Choose an HVAC contractor you can trust and go with his/her evaluation and advice>>>>>>>>>>>>.
I think he is trying to do that Bob and nobody is showing up.
I don't have any answers but maybe someone else will chime in!
Well, the one's who don't show up don't get on the short list <G>Ask around. Some HI's will give recommendations.
"Ask not what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive... then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
Howard Thurman
Call supply houses and ask for their recommendations. If there is any building in the area. Go to those job sites and find out who is doing the HVAC work. Call the Utility company and ask for their recommendation. If there is a building association in the area like the Home Builders Association call them. Go to Carrier, Bryant, Lennix, ect web sites. They sometimes have dealers lists by area. If there is a building dept call them.
Jay: When it came to my furnace I did just that. I went to a building site and talked to one of the subs. He recommended a Bryant and so I went to the web site for Bryant. They listed the local authorized Bryant reps. I used one of the listed companies. What a disaster. I am still waiting - 3 months now - for some very necessary adjustments. I call twice a week. Now I am on a first name basis with the receptionist - we even discuss our kids and jobs etc - but to no avail. Once I even got the owner on the phone. He told me he would personally visit my home and work on the furnace. I guess he never told me what year that might be.BE CAREFUL!
Sounds like you got a bad apple as a HVAC guy. I have a friend who bought a Cadillac and had nothing but trouble with it. The dealer wouldn't help him nor the zone office. He said one morning he was fed up and just started calling the General Motors head office. Took him 4 hours but he finally got to the President of the Cadillac division. 15 minuets after he hung up with him the local dealer called and told him to come down and pick up a new Cadillac. Bryan does not want bad dealers call their main office and don't stop until you get to the top dog. Another friend of mine said guess what the company he was having problems with can only deal with and make sales through the companies phone lines. He started to call them and keep calling them tying up their phone lines there for no new business. They fixed his problem just to get rid of him. A lady down the street was having problems with a home improvement company. She took her kids down to their office/show room and sat there until they fixed her problem. They were not making sales with her sitting there. Good Luck you did the right thing the HVAC guy turned out to be a jerk.
The demand for construction trades was at peak as were their rates, consequently they filtered their jobs to achieve the highest and best return. As the economy unwinds and the demand for trades decreases I expect a better response to my needs. In the meantime I am trying to determine the availability of systems that I may need and their costs. In that fashion I can discuss the options intelligently with a responsive trade. Thanks for your interest and replys.
Have you recontacted Bryant and reported you experience?
"Ask not what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive... then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
Howard Thurman
I have tried to contact Bryant but the insist that I contact the local dealer rep. Turns out that rep is the company I am dealing with. The Bryant web site will not even give you a TX number to call - only local dealers by zip code. It is very frustrating. I have written 3 letter to date. No reply yet. Wish me luck and thanks all for your responses.Mike
According to Dunn & Bradstreet Bryant doesn't exist. Anyone got an idea who owns them?
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -John Kenneth Galbraith
I think its Carrier. The Carrier furnace is the Buick and the Bryant the Chevy. I was told that here when I first started investigating a new furnace. I actually went with a local company recommended by folks on line here.Mike
Well, he could always contact the United Technologies HQ:Mail Address: 1 Financial Plz Fl 24
Hartford, CT, USA 06103-2619
860-728-7000
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -John Kenneth Galbraith
Are they the parent corp for Carrier/Bryant?
Yes, UT is the parent company of Bryant/Carrier/Payne.They are also the parent company of a completely different line of HVAC and it appears a completely different operations. Don't remember the names of hand.Get the Annual report online and look for names of a VP of the Carrier group..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
trick i learned when writing a sitch letter is to put a list of cc,s on the left bottom of page & at the top of list put LLB ( lawyer here ) reciepent will smell trouble fast the others can just be iniatials of people you know or BBB ( better business bureau )
you dont need to send the listed people a copy but main recipient dosent know if you gid or dident
never list the lawyers name as recipient may also be using him
Thanks to you both - the letter will be in the mail soon. Part of me still wants to work with the installer - but he will not call back or cooperate. What a sad way to loose business in a market where contracts must be difficult to find. Oh well - his loss.Mike
There is load calc software that is very good on-line it is called HVAC Calc. Although it not free, I found it I very good if you wanted to get an idea of your heating and cooling requirements.
You could also post your Q over at: http://heatinghelp.com/
They have a 'contractor in your area' search function. And like the folks here, take pride in their work.
Well the good news is you know who NOT to hire for the work. Anyone who doesn't show is not dependable ... period. Maybe they are dependable, but just way too busy ... which is also a bad combination ... too busy to provide good service.
You could go with the heat pumps ... separate units. You could do the gas fired. I personally wouldn't do the radiant floor ... sounds like a LOT of work and you have no insulation under it. The heat pump is nice in your climate. Works well. Not sure if you would need backup heat in your location. I assume you would ... which will increase the cost of the heat pump.
Cheapest up-front cost will be to replace the two furnaces (gas, I assume) with similar units.
Most efficient operating cost would be to replace each with a high-efficiency heat pump. Since each of the existing furnaces probably has its own duct system, it would not be practical to try to connect them both to one unit--the duct system would not be sized to handle it.
For a competent contractor, try going to the Website of ACCA (Air Conditioning Contractors of America). They are an association of independent contractors whose goal is to train members to provide top-quality installations. If there is a member(s) in your area, give them a call.
No matter what system you end up going with, it's important to go with a contractor who knows how to do an accurate load calculation to establish the actual heating needs of the house, or in your case, the needs to be met by each furnace. If the contractor tells you he doesn't need no stinking load calculation, dump him. He's only guessing, no matter how convincing he sounds about his huge experience and "never-had-a-complaint-yet" song and dance. The best contractors do load calcs to size the equipment.
The majority of HVAC contractors over-size the equipment to cover for poor ductwork and lack of a load calculation. Sizing equipment based on square footage is a MISTAKE, and the sure sign of contractor with insufficient knowledge.
Oversized equipment wears itself out prematurely, and degrades comfort by short-cycling.
Thanks for the reply which was interesting and informative. As a matter of interest I haven't seen sized ducts in many years and I doubt If I have them despite the fact it's an architect designed custom home. Additionally there are few return airs. Balancing either systems proved futile as the restricted vents became very noisey and temperture differentials remained high. The exterior design does not lend itself to a proper locale for a heat pump which makes me believe the the right path will be high efficiency counter flow furnaces with addtional return airs where required. I am travelling at the moment and on arrival at home will proceed keeping your advice in mind. Thanks again.
Your experience with high temperature differentials is a clear indication of too little airflow for too high BTU's, which means an inadequate duct system or oversized furnaces, or both.
As a general suggestion for improving airflow, it is almost always good to open up more return air. This can be done by having just one unrestricted central return for each system, AND, providing an unrestricted return air path from each room having a door that can isolate it from the central return. Keep in mind that a "return air path" does not necessarily mean a ducted return--you can accomplish this by undercutting the doors at least 1-1/2" above the flooring, if this is acceptable, or by making use of transfer grilles or jumper ducts (ceiling grille in bedroom to ceiling grille in hallway, connected by a short section of flex duct in the attic, if accessible.) Remember that the only function of a return is to relieve the pressure created by the supplies, and to do it with as little restriction as possible. They should always be larger than the supplies.
HVAC contractors like to sell new equipment, but if your heat exchangers are not cracked or corroded thru, you may not need to replace the furnaces to achieve the comfort you want.
First, see if you can improve airflow with unrestricted return paths.
Then, have a qualified service guy see about reducing the BTU output of the furnaces. If you are experiencing cold rooms, this may sound counter-intuitive, but it's not. You get cold rooms with an oversized furnace because the furnace shuts off before the back bedrooms have had a chance to warm up. The t'stat is located probably in the main space where it gets satisfied long before other rooms are warmed.
What you want are longer cycles from your system. This allows the temperature to average out much better. Lower BTU output and slower blower speed can help accomplish this. The perfect furnace, if it existed, would never shut off during the heating season--it would have a way to monitor the home's heat loss and then provide an equal amount of heat to offset the loss. Short of that, furnaces should be sized to an accurate load calculation so that the output of the furnace is not much more than the heat loss for the winter design temperature. (15% more is ideal)
Edited 3/26/2009 11:56 am ET by rdesigns
While I agree that doing a load calculation is important and necessary, a quick equipment size estimate could be established using square footage, some questions about the construction of the home and experience.
Performing all of the measurements to do a load calculation takes time, and why waste time when the potential customer is still shopping bids? Why not make it clear that a load calc would be performed if the contractor gets the job?
Load calculations are one thing everyone wants, but no one wants to pay for.
Call this guy:
Advanced Radiant Technology, LLc.
Paul Pollets
License: ADVANRT033RH
1752 NW Market St #133
Seattle, WA 98107
Phone: (206) 783-4315
Fax: (206) 783-5050
He's an excellent contractor & friend (I'm on the east coast in PA) & he'll be there when he says he'll be there.
Tell him Dave Yates suggested you contact him.