I had to help a friend move a new couch into their new townhome today. Three levels, bottom level entry/garage/bedroom. Upper level Living Room, kitchen. Top level 2 br. Anyway, this couch was 36″ front to back, and the stairway was 36″ wall to wall; when you put overhanging molding on the wall caps and windows, we had less than 35″ to work with and that thing was just NOT going up the stairs. We had to pry off the moldings to get the couch up the stairs. The owner told me that others in her complex had similar problems: one couldn’t get their king bed up the stairs to the bedroom, and another had a large leather couch that wouldn’t go upstairs either.
It got me to thinking, is this a trend? Is it a good thing, or is it something we should be trying whenever we can to fight, e.g. shouldn’t houses be designed so the residents can get their furniture and appliances into them? I mean, OK, so if you put 40″ stairway in for that one large piece, then you’re “wasted” all that space the rest of the time… but if you can’t get your furniture into the house, what’s the point of living there at all?
Let me know what you’ve thought and found in this regard.
Replies
I'm lucky in that i design on site... if it just doesn't feel right i adjust til it does... spent all week cutting stringers and building stairs.... and will do the same next week... also frame'n 1/2baths under the stairs and 2 closets... only the first one takes more time than i'd like... they are building 5 story walk ups here.... man
p
carry the couch on it's back ...
and get the split springs for the king size bed.
36" doorways are a "new invention" ... movers all over the world move bigger stuff thru smaller houses. I had to cut the wood spreaders in our queen box spring matress in half so we could squeeze it up the stairs ... should I blame the guy that built our house back in 1902?
Nope ... I should have planned ahead and went for the king with the split box springs! ( the big armour my wife wanted ... got built in place up stairs)
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I don't know if it is a trend. It might be the Wal-Marting of the building industry where people drive everything to the crappiest level they can get away with. Then again, it may be a single poor designer.
As an engineer for 20+ years (though not in the construction industry) I feel strongly about saying that any design that does not function is not good design. Moving furniture is a normal part of using a dwelling. Rental units especially have people moving all the time, so consideration to moving should be even greater for rentals than for owner-occupied homes.
I've been in well designed apartment complexes that had 40" doors, 48" stairways, wide atrium-like stairwells, and impact resistant walls that were kept nice for decades.
I think what you describe is design by someone not especially good at it.
"movers all over the world move bigger stuff thru smaller houses"
I've done some work in Europe, Africa and Asia. All apartment buildings in those parts of the world are built with a small crane on rollers mounted to the roof structure and every apartment will have one large window in the design that can be opened and anything short of a pickup truck moved in that way. I have seen it a few time in the US but not often.
It is helpful as a builder to point out to owners when a 'choke point' is obvious, usually at the top or bottom of a stairway. One more way to avoid call backs on nicked or dented plaster/sheetrock corners.
Older houses with narrow stairways and less then 6 foot high doors have a built in 'character' that the owners usually learn to live with and accept the the bumps and nicks.
Code minimums don't provide for easy transport of furniture. Stairs that go "around the corner" turns are a particular barrier. Also people need to be thoughtful when purchasing furniture, with respect to it's destination.
I think there is a trend toward more accessible homes, but as the same time, tract builders in particular adhere to code minimums which indeed aren't furniture friendly.
The fact is that a 3 bedroom/1 or 2 bath second floor might be reduced to 2 bedrooms if the bathroom(s) conforms to ADA specs (wheelchair turning radi), all rooms have 3'0" doors and the hallway and stairs are a more comfortable 40" wide. In this scenario, the same number of sq ft of living space would effectively house fewer people.
BTW - here in NC the code minimum width of stairs and hallways is 36" sheetrock to sheetrock - excluding moldings, handrails, etc. Believe it or not, previous to 2002 the required minimum bedroom door was 2'6", but with adoption of the IRC 2000 in 2002, that minimum was done away with - now that's progress!! I'm betting that already minimal code will be brought back soon as smaller than 2-6 is ridiculous and I think even the tract builders give 2-6 doors.
Did all exterior doors at 3-0 on our house, and all stairs (s story house) at 42" finished. What a luxury moving stuf around. Bikes, skis, armoires, couches ... noooooo problem!
Bruce
Between the mountains and the desert ...
Seems to me houses could be designed for such things. I have read that the beam hanging over the peak window in many traditional Dutch houses was for a pulley to get the bulky furniture up to the living quarters on top floor. The stairs, typically, are far too narrow.
Ships and submarines have openings in their hulls welded over to allow replacement of machinery. Takes a torch or PNG to cut out the opening but here are, by design, few if any interfering structures or plumbing in the way. Once the work is done they weld a plate over the hole and it's good as new.
Why can't house be designed the same way? Strategically placed removable 4' wide panels free of wiring and plumbing. Provisions for placement of ramps as needed to get down to ground level and over the plantings. Perhaps even a beam and pulley over a similar opening in the second floor. The panel could be unscrewed from inside, all the better to keep the burglars at bay, and swung down using the same pulley.
On the style side I think many halls and stairways are commonly made too wide simply to accommodate the movement of furniture. They loose their charm and mystery. Wasted space and they feel like alleys. Halls and stairs should be dramatically wide or quaintly narrow. The ADA minimums are not too bad. Perhaps a touch wide but long term provisions for wheel chairs is a good call. At some time most of us will face the issue. Anything in the middle looks, IMHO, vacuous or like a failed attempt at generosity. Architectural gestures are quantum. You either get to the 'Ah-Ha' or you don't. 80% is the same as a complete miss.
Besides the beam and pulley thing has a very high fashion rustic appeal. There are big dollars in quaint. And maybe a few dollars in practical.
I have never seen a sofa that was more than 31" tall. The geniuses I work with have always been able to figure out how to rotate furniture to fit in the smaller dimension that way instaed of taking the house apart.
a stair hall is a bit on the smallish side, but I see the trend is more in making the furniture oversized than in making the housing undersized. Definitely a lack of planning on both sides though
Some things I've done in the past -
Dis-assembled a large ladies vanity custom made in Tennessee and shipped here so I could carry three sections up a ladder to fit through a window with the sashes out
carried a sofa in to an upper bedroom and then installed the door jamb later
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This couch was only 29" tall, but 35 1/2" front to back. two 90 degree turns on the stairs, up 3 turn right, up 10 turn right again, just 36x36" landings, so the thing barely fits on its end.
The couch we took OUT was 32" front to back, and THAT one the movers said "no way we can get it up the stairs".. it took her son and his friend to get it in. We got IT out easily enough, but it was pretty hairy getting the new one in.