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As you may or may not know, I’m an industrial carpenter for a steel mill.
I do dabble in residential construction to help out a friend or two on occasion. Well, one of my friends is in the process of building a single story garage; which will be 30 feet wide by 40 feet long. He’s mounting 2×4 trusses which will span the 30 feet and rest on the 40 foot long bearing walls. His trusses are spaced 2ft. OC
I told my friend I would stop by after work each day to give him a hand. In the meantime, he hired a local “contractor” who I’ve never heard of before to do the garage layout and help with the construction.
The garage is a frame building being built on top of a footer/stem wall. The footer is concrete, the stemwall is concrete block, 1 course above ground level, with a concrete pad installed in-between the stem wall. A 2X8 treated mud sill is anchored to the stemwall and the wall framing is conventional 2X4 walls, 16inch OC. Roof sheathing is 5/8 SOB and will be shingled with 3 tab 25 year fiberglass shingles. Wall sheathing is 7/16 OSB.
After arriving at the jobsite and watching the “contractor” work, its obvious he is no real legit contractor. This guy (I’ll call him JC), laid out the RO for the doors without consideration for the stemwall height. Thus , his 6′-8 door height was actually 9-3/4 inches too high when placed on the wall. He never started his first wall stud 15-1/4 inches in, so that the plywood wall sheathing would break on a seam. His corners were simply butted in to one another; no built up corners with extra studs. JC also insisted on installing a garage header composed of 5, 20 ft. long 2x10s. This beam would span a 16 foot garage door opening; which was not a load bearing wall! I and another friend persuaded our friend not to let JC install such a massive header. JC argued that the header had to be this massive, otherwise it would sag in the middle of the span. In the end, 3 2X10s sandwiched with plywood, glued and nailed together tightly, was installed as the garage door header.
In addition to all this, JC was framing the walls with 10d (3 inch) clipped head nails. I pointed out 16d should be in use instead of the 10d. JC said 10d was more than suitable for garage construction.
So, after this long winded story, here comes my “meat & potatoes” question:
The garage length of 40 ft. dictated that a total of 21 trusses should be used (for 24inch OC). Normally the 2 end trusses are special so that 2X4 ladder trusses can be built and the fascia/barge rafter attached to the ladders. I know that gable end trusses take a little “lead” time to order and deliver , compared to standard trusses. Well, my friend doesn’t order the end trusses in time, so JC tells him to order 20 standard trusses. Theses are 4/12 pitch, with a 1 foot overhang.
JC proceeds to install these trusses as so….He sets the 1st truss in 11-3/4 inches from the outside edge of the end wall. He plumbs this truss, then proceeds to install the rest at 24 inch OC; until he comes to truss # 20, which he again installs 11-3/4 inches shy of the gable end wall. He informs my friend that he will build the 2 gable end walls from scratch with 2×4 lumber; complete with the 2×4 lookouts and barge rafters. He claims this is easy to build, and will be plenty strong. He plans on fabricating the end trusses so that they are 3-1/2 inches shorter in height so he can nail on the 2×4 lookouts on edge, overtop.
I’ve seen these lookouts laid flat (1-1/2 inches) into scratch built end trusses that were the same height as a standard truss, but had been notched out 1-1/2 inches deep by 3-1/2 inches long to accomodate these 2×4 lookouts.
In light of this manner, (and before any trusses were ever installed) I informed my friend that if he simply ordered 1 more standard size truss (which were already in stock at our lumberyard), then he could utilize this truss and one of the others already bought as the gable end wall trusses. I suggested he mount these 2 trusses flush with the endwalls, notch the top chord on these 2 trusses approx every 2 feet an inch and a half deep for the 2×4 lookouts, and set up the remaining trusses 24 inch OC. Thus, for the cost of one additional truss ($56) my friend could have had all his trusses errected and been roof sheathing by now. JC said that a truss is not allowed to be notched and refused to go along with this plan. My friend opted with JC and 2 days hence, only 1 end truss has been built. (No barge rafter yet)The other is still just a dream; the roof sheathing is therefore not installed, and hey….its raining; and is forcasted to continue for the remainder of this week!
QUESTION…was my suggestion of notching the end trusses valid? I thought it would be valid since the trusses are sitting on top of 1 non load bearing 2×4 wall, and the other situated atop the heavy duty garage header; which wall was also non load bearing. The 1-1/2 inch top chord notches would be replaced with 1-1/2 inch stock material; so…..where’s the harm ?
Was I right in this arguement, or not? Would like to hear some feedback.
Thanks for being patient (too long a story,huh!!!?)
Davo.
By the way, JC toenailed all the rafters using the 10d clipped nails. No hurricane clips installed. Think that roof will lift? I think so.
Replies
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clipped nails are fine ( according to code on houses that I frame and they are much more than garages if you know what I mean)
pretty sure that your solution for lookouts is ok just check with local building dept.
jim
*Around here, the end trusses are notched so a 2x4 lookout will pass when lying flat. We try to locate them (48" OC)so that they will support two sheets. Any reduction in truss strength (from notching)will be offset by the 7/16 OSB sheathing. The one thing that end trusses offer is standard stud spacing for nailing off sheathing and siding. If you use a regular truss at the end you have to make provisions for this. One way is to nail the sheathing to the truss and then come back and fill in with 2x4 nailers 16" or 24" OC. One man holds the nailer in position and another shoots of with #8s. Bend over the nails and you are set.
*Davo, your bringin' up some valid points, and some not so valid.First, your main question: notch a truss?short answer: no. Notch a gable truss: yesA "regular" truss does funny things when it expands and contracts. The truss will break at the notch. A gable truss does not react in the same way. It can withstand a notch much better.It sounds like you are the odd man out. Bite your tongue. Your friend hired other guy and you seem to be making the guys life miserable. You are also making your friend miserable. Yes, theres been some mistakes (header height), but the double stud corners are okay unless you need the extra stud for drywall backing. Who cares if the guy puts two extra memebers in the header. I'm not an engineer, but I think I'd rather have had four or five members instead of plywood and glue. What is the reason for doing that if there are extra 2x10 lying around? And I like the guys idea of site building the gable while placing the truss layout the way you described. Personally, I would have saved the 57$ and only used 19 trusses.3" clipped head nails are adequate, providing that they are the proper diameter (.031). Your concern for additional hardware is warranted if the local codes require it. I personally have never seen a truss clip and the houses and barns around here all seem to keep their lids on.I think you are a bit out of line. A true friend would go back after the fact and help to tweak the barn without badmouthing it. Pointng out useless details can only leave a bad taste in your friends mouth. He isn't going to pull all the 3" clipped nails and reinstall 3 1/4" nails anyways, so why bother mentioning it?If it passes the inspection, it's okay.blue
*I'm with the other guys on this. It seems to me that you're just trying to force the guy to do things your way, when his way is perfectly valid. Nothing he's done sounds like that big of a deal to me.
*Well you guys are right, I probably am making my friend's life miserable. Blue Eye, I don't have truss clips on my garage's trussed roof either, but I did nail frieze blocks in between the trusses; and I used 16 penny nails. They did neither of these things. I really don't think a toenailed 10 penny nail has that much holding power, compared to a 16d, and I thought code did not accept 10d to be used when nailing the truss chord to the wall plate. Am I mistaken on this point?Yea, I did go back with my own 16 penny nails and renailed a lot of what was framed. I had too...a couple of places where walls were butted and nailed together were already pulling apart and daylight was showing through....but not anymore. I guess what upsets me is that I feel my friend is being duped and is settling for poor workmanship. Even with all that has been framed,(they started putting on the roof sheathing today, about 3/4 finished) you can still grab hold of any part of the garage walls and easily move it. I'm talking inches of travel, not 16ths. I'm sorry, but a garage is simply a big box, and boxes aren't that hard to make square, plumb, and strong. So far, I notice none of these things.Guess I'm too critical.Davo.
*Now you know what we got thru all the time! It's worse for those of us who do this residential. You know, the friend or neighbor kinda asks for a bid. But not in a hurry and they'll wait till you can fit in in. You give a ballpark, or general advice, and suddenly the not in a hurry people have picked the first available guy and now find out why you were booked up and he was ready! You got over looked on a personal level.....for us it's on a personal and business level! Oh well, people never learn! Going thru the exact same thing these last few weeks......simple garage.....three weeks later and only 2/3rd of the pad poured. No mention of flashing the tie in till I asked. French drain on one side seems like a good idea since I brought it up too. I just stop by when I'm driving past and give a little guidance on the important things. Looks like I may be setting the trusses and roofing it now......so I'm gonna pay a little more attention to the walls! You can only do so much! Keep it safe, let it be crooked. As I told my buddy, you're saving a little money, but ya still gotta pay! Jeff