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Discussion Forum

galv screws…what happened?

megspop | Posted in General Discussion on December 8, 2006 03:52am

I went to my local hardware store to get some galvanized screws for a deck and had to get a ceramic dipped screw instead. Did I miss something? What was the concern and how was it fixed or improved? It may not be the same in your area but upstate NY is apparently making some changes.

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  1. rez | Dec 08, 2006 05:19am | #1

    Probably because of the corrosive ACQ requiring triple hot dipped zinc or other various types of coatings like ceramic instead.

    Galvies might end up being a special order product.

     

     
    damn, am I fat!

    1. MikeSmith | Dec 08, 2006 05:30am | #2

      the ceramics will not hold up to the ACQ..

       hot dipped galvanized will

      or SS...

      but i haven't seen any ceramic that advertize as being compatible with ACQMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

      1. rez | Dec 08, 2006 05:36am | #3

        The Depot/Lowes sell these ceramic things that say for ACQ right on the box.

        But the coating is so thin it's useless. Drive one in and then take it out and the ceramic is off the threads with the bare metal showing.

         

         damn, am I fat!

      2. User avater
        zak | Dec 08, 2006 07:26am | #4

        How about that Climatek coating that is on GRK screws?  It says on the box, ACQ ok.  I have my doubts, it's such a thin coating.  They look like zinc plated screws to me.  Haven't tried it out yet though.zak

        "When we build, let us think that we build forever.  Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin

        "so it goes"

         

        1. MikeSmith | Dec 08, 2006 01:56pm | #5

          i don't know... GRK is pretty dependable.. but ACQ is pretty evilMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

      3. User avater
        Gene_Davis | Dec 08, 2006 08:47pm | #10

        Mike, I just took down a signpost I had out in front of a job.  The posts and spars were all ACQ, and bolted together with hot dipped galvanized lags.

        The rig has been around now since early '05, and when I went to back out the lags to knock it down, they were eaten almost through.

        Not a thorough scientific test, but it will make me use SS with ACQ from  now on.

        1. MikeSmith | Dec 08, 2006 08:58pm | #11

          gene.. you're sure they are Hot Dipped ?

          man.. i'm wondering where this is going... can you imagine the structures that have already been built with ACQ ?

          this is EVIL

           Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

          1. User avater
            Gene_Davis | Dec 08, 2006 09:36pm | #12

            Yes, Mike.  Hot dipped.  Not electro, but dipped.  Likely just once, which has been the standard for HD galv coating on lags for a long time.

            Now admittedly, these ACQ members were out in the weather the whole year and a half . . . no roof over.  The posts themselves were sunk into holes, but the fasteners were not into play until a couple feet above grade.

            Doesn't make me too nervous, because the only ACQ I've put into projects since it's been in play has gone into mudsills and bottom wallplates in contact with crete.  Totally dry situations.  And, I have gravity working for me.

          2. MikeSmith | Dec 08, 2006 10:16pm | #13

            2-story decks, ledgers bolted  thru...

            handrails / guardrails.... joist hangers

            you name it,  an awful lot of stuff has been built with ACQMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

          3. User avater
            zak | Dec 09, 2006 04:50am | #19

            How bad is the CA-B treated wood in terms of corrosion?  That's what I've been seeing around here for mudsills.  We use HD nails in it, and I keep meaning to check out if that's good practice or not.zak

            "When we build, let us think that we build forever.  Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin

            "so it goes"

             

          4. MikeSmith | Dec 09, 2006 05:31am | #21

            it's code here.. anything nailed into the PT plate has to be HD galv. minimum

            we buy a lot of Bostich nails made for  ACQ... but i doubt that  even they will really suit

            being a coastal enviornment, in our hand nails, we don't allow any brights on the job, only HD Galv, common or finishMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

          5. ANDYSZ2 | Dec 10, 2006 08:47am | #22

            Fence jobs are going to be the tell tale.

            I can just see it now the 4000' of fence I have put up this summer will be falling off the posts in about 3 years.

            I wonder who will be liable the nail manufacturers or the acq suppliers.

            ANDYSZ2WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?

            REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST

             

          6. JohnT8 | Dec 08, 2006 10:25pm | #14

            man.. i'm wondering where this is going... can you imagine the structures that have already been built with ACQ ?

            this is EVIL

            Do you think the engineers and chemists who dreamed up the ACQ witches brew at any time had the thought, "gee, it might be a bad idea to treat the wood with a corrosive agent that will eat all the fasteners."   ?

            Or did they just run out and buy stock in SS fastener companies prior to releasing the ACQ?

             jt8

            "When one door closes another door opens; but we so often look so long and so regretfully upon the closed door, that we do not see the ones which open for us." -- Alexander Graham Bell

          7. MikeSmith | Dec 08, 2006 10:59pm | #15

            sure sounds like that olde immutable "Law of Unintended Consequences"

            mixed with the devil-you-know   vs. the devil-you -haven't-met-yetMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

          8. bucksnortbilly | Dec 09, 2006 03:08am | #16

            Mike, I was under the impression that any galvanized fasteners for ACQ were suppposed to be double hot dipped. I'm also thinking that I recently got some Maze nails for ACQ that were double hot dipped.Now, if all the manufacturers of galvied fasteners would get there shid up to speed<G>

          9. IronHelix | Dec 09, 2006 04:32am | #17

            I was on jobsite this week as the GC had the carpenters dismantled a large (90 Ft.)temporary handicap ramp that served as an access for the last 18 months of the $3.2 Million addition to an existing church.

            The trades and I have been at odds about fasteners and ACQ...most feeling that the corrossion effects of ACQ were blown out of porportion to reality.

            You could see the look on their faces as they unscrewed the AQQ deck to find "Rated (ceramic coated) for ACQ" screws deeply corroded.  An occassional "galvanized'/plated screw would turn up in a completely rusted condition.

            Although many boxes of fasteners say "Approved for use with the new treated lumber" they do not meet the treaters minimum standards. and if you search deep into the mfg. specs you will find a 3 to five year expected corrosion resistance.

            Decks generally are expected to last longer than 5 years....more like 25 for most applications.  The "Approved" screws in the ramp would not have made the 5 years, let alone 25.

            The reality is that ACQ eats everything except stainless and the hot dipped galvanized is the "minimum standard". and when the jury comes in the minimum with a maximum award then who will pay? 

            Not ME...all my spec's read S/S only!

            If not, then up the liability insurance!

            ......................Iron Helix

          10. Renovator | Dec 09, 2006 05:00am | #20

            Been there , done that!

            SS is the clear winner here. Salty air will kill ceramic.

            On some decks we have driven 900000000 screws, and tend prefer impact drivers. Ceramic chips off.

          11. Pierre1 | Dec 09, 2006 04:41am | #18

            and all this to solve some problem that wasn't. 

  2. CarpentrySpecialist | Dec 08, 2006 02:24pm | #6

    I just checked the MAZE nails web site.

    http://www.mazenails.com/news/template.php?id=12

    Check out the double dip and thats the skinny.

    Best to you and yours, Chris.

    Some say I know too much.

  3. Jer | Dec 08, 2006 02:41pm | #7

    Hmmmm...Far as I know they're still around. Got some the other day at Lowes. But you're right, they're not as prevalent. Next deck job I think I'm biting the bullet and going to SS.

  4. jg | Dec 08, 2006 04:21pm | #8

    Ive seen them around, but we mainly use them to screw off small areas of subfloors

  5. FHB Editor
    JFink | Dec 08, 2006 06:12pm | #9

    Do yourself a favor and get your screws through http://www.mcfeelys.com - order in bulk and you always have what you need, and then some.

    Strange though, their No-Co-Rode brand of screws smells nasty to me...am I the only one?

    Justin Fink - FHB Editorial

    Your Friendly Neighborhood Moderator

    1. User avater
      xxPaulCPxx | Dec 10, 2006 09:40am | #23

      Maybe you shouldn't be snorting your screws.  ;)

       

      I've never noticed an order yet, but I haven't received any ne ones for months.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA

      Also a CRX fanatic!

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