Garage door wouldn’t go up last night. It tried, went about 6 inches and stopped, I kept trying. Finally went in throught the door (had to find the key) and found that the coil spring had popped. Second time for this house. The door is a double wide un-insulated metal type, so it’s not like a water soaked wood door.
Anyway, I replaced the spring once, and I’ll never mess with that kind again. Really scary. Question is … can I convert the door to the double tension springs on the sides?
“When asked if you can do something, tell’em “Why certainly I can”, then get busy and find a way to do it.” T. Roosevelt
Replies
Something ain't right.
I have an 18ft wooden door (HEAVY) that springs lasted for about 22 years until the first one broke. And during most of that time the door was not adjusted properly and the opener did most of the work.
Did you replace both pairs?
It is possible to convert to the two tension springs if the track is heavy enough and anchored to the ceiling correctly. Most tracks with the coil spring above the door have the track hung with struts that may be perpendicular to the track. The struts need to be in line with the track for the end of cable application you are interested in.
Beware of those springs also. Even with the door all of the way up, when you connect the springs, there should be some tension on them. There is a lot of tension on the cable when the door is lower, so be sure the cable clamps are extra tight or double up the crimp sleeves on them. A broken cable or one that pulls out of the crimp sleeve cna do some serious damage when it is under a load. That is from personal experience :(
All of that said, I would go back with the over the door springs and make sure I do proper maintenance on them every six months. Most spring failures occur because the coils rust together and seize. I forget what the ratio is, but for every coil that doesn't move, the increased load on the remaining coils is pretty high. Failure and breakage occurs when several coils are stuck together and the increased load goes beyond the rated capacity for the remaining spring.
Routine maintenance consist of spring a good oil on the springs every 4 to 6 months. Even WD-40 will work, but is not as long lasting as some of the heavier spray lubes.
Try spraying one of the springs that did not break. As the oil soaks into the coils, you will hear them start to pop as they release from their neighbors and relax. It is scary to think of how much stored energy is in a spring that is seized.
Dave
Sorry, Dave, that's BS. The springs should have no tension in them when the door is up. I just went out and looked at mine to be sure of this. Nope, they're limp when the door's up. When the opener is free of the door, there should be neutral up and down, that's the key. If there's tension when the door is up, then there's resistance going down. Shouldn't be.
Edited 10/26/2005 9:19 pm ET by BARMIL
Even with the door all of the way up, when you connect the springs, there should be some tension on them.
That statement says some tension on them, not a lot. Just enough to keep them from sagging. Letting them sag means there is a more active wear point on the spring loop where the cable goes through. I have rebuilt five or six of them because the loop on the end of the spring wore through. Most were 30 to 40+ years old and did not have cable sleeves through the loop. One did, but the cable still wore through it. My overhead door supplier told me to install them with enough tension on the spring to keep them from sagging.
Dave
The problem with torsion springs is that you generally have to work on them with the door down, when the springs are at max torsion. (Otherwise the door is in the way.) With extension springs you can do the hook-up while the door is up.
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> .... enough tension on the spring to keep them from sagging.
That works for me. I'd guess mine are 20 - 50 lbs. of tension in the open position. Just pulled them by hand to where I could get the hook in a link of the chain.
-- J.S.
Actually, the safety cable should keep them from sagging.--------------
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I replaced my own tension rod type spring - the style with a coil spring in the middle of a shaft with traditional springs and pulleys.
The only ringer in the installation was the question - how much does the door wiegh? Supply house needed that info to determine the number and size of the new springs.
Wiegh the door by resting the center of the door on a bathroom scale before you go spring and hardware shopping. All spring tension must be removed before wieghing - but since your spring is broken, that should not be a problem.
Make sure to lace a safety cable through your new springs to retain the parts when they break - years down the road. Flying spring pieces can be very harmful to garage contents and / or occupants!
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
I also have a garage door with coil springs. To keep them under control, I run a piece of #9 wire through the coil and tie it off on each end.
Then if something breaks the springs aren't launched across the garage at someone or something.
.
By #9 wire, I mean real heavy stuff like we use to brace fence posts. The name may just be a local thing.
Boss
By #9 wire, I mean real heavy stuff like we use to brace fence posts. The name may just be a local thing.
No, its not a local thing, its a FARMER thing! :)
I grew up knowing that you can fix anything with some #9 wire.
Doug
I wonder why it's always springs. A counterweight system should also be possible, but nobody uses one.
-- J.S.
Springs provide varying force as the door moves - Less when it's all the way up and more when it's down. Counterweights would only give you one force. So I don't think they'd work well.
Ambiguous headline: KIDS MAKE NUTRITIOUS SNACK
If the counterweights were on a lever it would work, but would take up a lot of room. However, another way to do it would be multiple counterweights (about 8-10 per side) so that they would "bottom out" as the door rises. But careful design would be required to keep the cable between weights from crimping and fraying.--------------
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Ah!! The thing to do is to have the weights run in a sort of track too, starting with a vertical section running down to a horizontal section near the floor that doubles back towards the door. The weights could be sections that link together and run on rollers, like a very narrow garage door. Would take up a bit of floor space, unfortunately, but with pulleys could always be placed against a wall.
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It would take up a lot of space, be complicated, and probably be expensive. All for very little benifit, if any.
Ambiguous headline: LANSING RESIDENTS CAN DROP OFF TREES
Actually, I figured out a way for it to be entirely vertical. Just takes twice as much weight and an extra pulley. Could probably be fit into about 6" x 18" footprint.--------------
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I second what woodscribe said.......
Counterweights would only give you one force. So I don't think they'd work well.
I mistakenly built a 17' wide opening. Used a combination of doors to fill the hole. Then I discovered how heavy they were. Tried a number of springs but wasn't successful. Counterweights work just fine, and simply, as long as the door only goes up. This building has 4 garage doors, 2 counterweighted by preference.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
I replaced one torsion spring, and I'll never do it again. Way too dangerous.
I called the loacl Overhead Door Co today, and the guys in the parts dept say they don't carry the tension springs, so I'm gonna go back with torsion. They will replace it for about $125 material and labor.
Counterweights work just fine, and simply, as long as the door only goes up
Does that mean they don't work when the door goes down?
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
This isn't torsion springs. Why are the White Sox so strong against the Astros?
we do dangerous stuff all the time....do the door mechanics have special tools? just curious....
Specil tools? Not really. All it takes is a steel bar or two of the correct diameter to fit in the adjusting hole, and a heck of a lot of nerve to be cranking tension (torsion?) into a spring just a few inches from my exceedingly handsome face. I think #3 rebar works ok, but tends to bend a bit as the higher torque is reached.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Don't even think about it! That bar has enough force behind it to embed itself in the wall behind you, after it goes through your shoulder... get a pro to do it! They are a good system, just don't mess with them yourself.
I agree. I'm an ED doc and I've seen the results of torsion springs gone wild. Even on the little baby swings that rock back and forth. Used LARGE bolt cutters to get one out of the baby sitters hand one night. The 'S' shaped end wrapped around her index and long finger flexion tendons. She went to surgery to have it unwrapped. Imagine if it had been in your neck around your carotid artery while your were in the garage on a ladder. Hire a pro.
Advice from a dumb DIY redneck who will do just about anything. Hell, I even took LSD and went skydiving, but I wouldn't mess with garage door springs.
hey, I'm on a 300K hotel remod., 4 week construction window starts Nov 1, space is already booked for Dec.1 , plumbing review shot down the plans for no ADA upgrade to two existing bathrooms....& fire hasn't even reviewed yet (we figure they'll object to the lack of existing smoke detectors or strobes)....
I got neves of steel......
Never thought cranking tension INTO the spring would worry me, but don't know how much I like the thought of UNLOADING the existing spring when I get around to replacing my existing door (whose overhead track is just about eye height when I step out the side door into the garage) with a new high lift one.....
Rebar is a poor choice because it's of uneven diameter and fairly soft. You should have hard steel pins that fit the holes snugly. The biggest danger is having a pin cam out on you.--------------
No electrons were harmed in the making of this post.
I think that in general, it's a good universal rule of thumb that "if you're afraid to do something - Don'T DO IT!".
For me, that's climbing around on roofs over, say...a 6 pitch! (I know, I'm a wuss.)
But FYI:
At my Mom's garage this summer - July 4rth weekend in fact, my brother and I removed her old wood (with glass panel also) door, which was installed with springs running parallel to the door tracks (tension springs). We brought the door to upright, braced it into that position, before releasing tension on the cables.
Anyway, we ripped the whole old door and spring assembly out.
Installed new insulated Clopay door, with torsion rod spring. Followed all directions (which, sux'd - missing step and all that). But IIRC, it wasn't but about 90 seconds of drill using insert piece to crank the prescribed number of revolutions - based upon size of door - into the torsion spring; which was second to last thing to do and we were done.
We laughed at ourselves (2 degreed engineers, DIYers, never messed with garage door rip out and replace before) for taking 8 hours to get old door and springs/frame out and new door totally in. But we're both A.R.E.s and like to attempt new things...
So anyway, sounds to me like the quote for $125 is a good price!
DUM SPIRO SPERO: "While I breathe I hope"
Counterweights work just fine, and simply, as long as the door only goes up
Does that mean they don't work when the door goes down?
This a humor attempt?
The only reason most doors need graduated counterweighting is when they travel horizontal. Up and down, if you can set the track that way, makes for simple balancing. Easiest if the building's designed accordingly. Saves ceiling height with the door raised. No, I don't use an installing company.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Get your replacement from a local door shop, and ask them to convert to a high cycle spring. Typical springs are rated for 10000 cycles. With the garage door being the main entrance in a busy house you can reach that number fairly quickly.
They should be able to increase cycle life to 25k, 50k or more.