I just looked at a garage today. Its a gable roof (20ft wide) and since the last of the original 2 joists has broken, The garage walls are 6″8″ out of plumb.
My question is, can I piece in replacement joists? My plan would be to use 10′ 2×6’s with a 8′ 2×6 and 1/2″ carriage bolts spanning the joint. After that we’d run studs from the joist to the ridge.
All good or not so much?
Replies
This is confusing -
A roof does not have jopists. Are you talking about broken ceiling joists or roof rafters?
If a roof is 20' wide ten foot rafters or joists will not work. A rrafter will run longer on the pitch and a joist would need to overlap a joint in the center.
Which walls are out of plumb?
How did the "joist" get broken?
What good would it do to run studs from a joist to a ridge?
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Sorry Piffin, Garage is a gable style roof the ceiling joists (yes originally only two of them) clear spanned 20'.
My mission should I choose to accept it, Pull the walls back in to plumb and install some new ceiling joists.
My question, do I need to use one piece joists or can I use the assemblies as described in the OP?
BTW nothing has "jopists"
Edited 5/3/2007 8:00 pm ET by MSA1
Edited 5/3/2007 8:02 pm ET by MSA1
If these rafter ries are only acting to resit outward thrust, then as long as the center joint is fastened as adequately as the outside ends to wall and rafter, then you could two-piece it. But if you are trying to employ king posts at cemter - I think you called them studs, then they may be to support ridge and you would be better off with twnty foot long rafter ties IMOHow easy this is to pull back together will depend a lot on how long it has been sagging. I am going out on a limb with limited sight of the job, but I think if you use several more rater ties after pulling it up right, then any king posts to the ridge would be redundant and a waste of time and resource.
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You should be able to get 20'ers at a real lumber yard. I've put them up on the plates before getting the walls pulled all the way back in. I would also think about some collar ties, and throw in a couple of kings...but, I'm a dare devil<G> Outside of the gates the trucks were unloadin',
The weather was hot, a-nearly 90 degrees.
The man standin' next to me, his head was exploding,
Well, I was prayin' the pieces wouldn't fall on me.
I thought about doing what you suggested, but i'm thinking that may be more than I want to pay attention to at once.
It's not really a big deal, 'sides you don't really want to crank it back together too quickly...you want to savor the snap, crackles, and pops<G> Outside of the gates the trucks were unloadin',
The weather was hot, a-nearly 90 degrees.
The man standin' next to me, his head was exploding,
Well, I was prayin' the pieces wouldn't fall on me.
You may need to put the ceiling joists up there before you pull the walls in plumb. Otherwise, you'll have to cut them shorter than you'd like to or cut a hole in the roof on one side to slide them in. Cut them to length with the appropriate taper on the ends and put them up first and you'll have maximum nailing surface into the rafters and top plates.I've used Piffin's method to fix a garage in such a state. It works. I'd try to get a small crew together to mind the come-alongs and jacks. More manpower would make this easier. Think grilled meat and beer afterwords.
fitting in the ties is not often a problem. I slide them into one side where it extends over the plates, into the soffit space and then lift the other end and back it into place.small crew is nice. But easy enough to do alone. Keep moving from one comealong or jack to the other continually and stopping to listne to the structure and adjust baraces.I usually dril the eyebolts through the top plates.
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Yeah, but my question was, Do I have to go with a full 20' joist or can I piece them in?
If the load is only lateral, in tension, then two piece, adequately fastened for the load, is fine.But iof you are appling vertial load against it, then you need engineers study
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Yep, Just lateral.
Thanks Piffin
I've encountered similar problems in several homes. As far as splicing yes you can, but why? It uses more lumber, more hardware and it requires more people. The joists don't need to rest on the top plate, just cut sloped ends and push up tight to the roof sheating. You shouldn't be storing anyting up there anyway. King posts will not do anything for you except add work. I recommend pulling in walls over the course of a week or so, not all at once. As previously suggested by a number of posters, a screw jack to push up the ridge simutaneously will help. I always scratch my head and marvel that a builder actually thought he'd built a sound roof in such a fashion...especially where we are in snow country.
We seem to be on the same page here now. Yes I was referring to king posts as studs (I was in a hurry when I posted).
As I said before I was planning to bring it back in shape exactly the was you suggested. My thought was to remove to the top couple runs of vinyl siding and take the cable through the sheathing and attach it to a 2x (with eye bolt) that would span two or three wall studs.
I would use the 20 ton bottle jack to kind of help the come along out along the way.
This is more fun than a soduku puzzler
I see you suggest there were only two "joists" in the whole garage!?
So we are not speaking of joist here but rafter ties spanning the tops of the walls that the rafters sit on, right? Their only function was to resist that outward thrust, not to hold up a floor or ceiling, tying the rafters and walls together. That is why the walls are spreading and the ridge is probably sagging.
So first thing is to get cable or chain, comealongs, and four big eyebolts with solid washers.
Hook things up and draw the walls back in - if you need to, get a hydraulic or two and posts from ground to ridge and apply upward pressure while tightening the comealongs drawing the wals in.
After you get things straightened up, then you get some twenty foot long 2x8 and replace those old ties at about one every four feet.
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I'm with you on process, but once again is it acceptable to piece them in?
I see you suggest there were only two "joists" in the whole garage!?
Could it be that the rafters have both a collar and a rafter tie; and those are the "joists"?Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
I am thinking if the ridge is sagged and the side walls are bowed out then the gable ends are leaning in.
and when everything is straight again the sidewall siding will be short.
<<and since the last of the original 2 joists has broken>>
So, starring into my crystal ball, I see two (only two) original 20' ceiling joists tying the side walls together. They eventually break, then the side wall push out due to roof loading.
Your first challenge is to pull the side walls back plumb. Depending on how much weight is on the roof, that can be an interesting project/experiment, all by it's self.
Replacing the ceiling joists/ties and making up some king post trusses is a relative breeze, by comparison. So ask about that after you've determined how to reconfigure the framework.
Hint: you could ask us how we'd do that. Probably start a pretty good conversation/shootin' match with that question. ;-)
Edit: I see that Piffin has begun that one already. He's right on the mark too.
Edited 5/3/2007 6:19 pm ET by Hudson Valley Carpenter
So, starring into my crystal ball.....
Man I gotta get me one of those.View Image
<<So, starring into my crystal ball.....>>
<<Man I gotta get me one of those.>>
Hey, it took Piffin two shots at it, before he figured it out. Looks like my crystal ball is workin' pretty good. ~!~
I got a used one you can rent
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So, starring into my crystal ball.....
Man I gotta get me one of those.
View Image
How the hell do you run a business without one?
Joe H
Edited 5/4/2007 11:17 am by JoeH
>> The garage walls are 6"8" out of plumb. << Is your insurance paid up to date? That would be both your general liability and your life insurance. :-)
Are you sure the best tool to fix this might not be a track hoe? :-)
BTW - without knowing any of the particulars, and assuming you are talking about ceiling joists, I'll venture a guess that even 1 pc 2x6s won't span 20'.
"Are you sure the best tool to fix this might not be a track hoe"
Are we allowed to say 'Track Hoe"?
Ozlander
We are allowedImmus isn't
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Even if you manage to restore the walls to plumb, the ridge of the roof has to be sagging right now. Restoring the walls will not fix the damage already done to the roof; it might even make it leak like a sieve.
Therefore, pulling the walls back together is but a temporary fix.
The original design was, clearly, inadequate. It's time to knock it down and start over.
This is also a good example of why you need a proper design to begin with. It's likely that whoever built the thing was trying to get the most from the least, yet lacked the training to know how to do just that. Proper roof trusses might have made all the difference.
What do you mean by 6"8"?
Do you mean between 6 and 8 inches out or do you mean 6 feet 8 inches out? I would assume you mean 6 to 8 inches but I'm not sure everyone else does.
Yes, 6 to 8 inches.