Gas Fireplaces. Again. Again.
Question regarding gas fireplaces for all you experts out there. In the floor plans we are working on, the fireplace is in the middle of the house. Two story (actually, I always thought it was “storey”, but that’s an aside, isn’t it?), with a 10/12 pitch roof, so the chimney height would be something like 28 ft from the floor to the top. Roughly. We are in a cold climate (a good 6 hrs north of piffin), so the house will be well insulated and airtight.
Choices will be obviously B vent or DV. I have been told that with a DV unit and this chimney height, the efficiency will drop to 40% range, or less, due to the long chimney run. I guess, if the fireplace draws the air down that 30 ft chimney, I can see the logic there. Is it possible to get a DV unit with a separate air intake? The intake could easily be run in a vent under the floor, and only be a 10 ft horizontal run to the outside wall.
Anyone with any brilliant ideas, or product recommendations?
Replies
The manufacturers should be able to provide you with written specifications of what vent systems are permitted and how well they will work.
Thank you. That's exactly why I posted the question here on Breaktime. I would never have thought of checking with the manufacturers. Who would have thought of that one? Amazing that someone could come up with that idea. I really appreciate your input.
I can't tell if that was sarcasm or not . . . .Steelkilt Lives!
Oh yes you can.You pompous egotistical redneck, it's not a ponytail. I'm just getting ready for a mean combover and it'll sure look a lot better than yours!
Well, yes I suppose so.
To bad it wasn't phrased, "Yes, I thought of that. The mfg said _______ I was looking for some anecdotal info from the field. You know, someone out there must have run accross this before . . . ."
Not to totally hi-jack the thread, BUT - I wonder how many people that may have answered, elected not to . . . Steelkilt Lives!
If it was sarcasm, it was misplaced. why on earth would you ask a question on a public forum for which only the manufacturer will have the definitive answer?________________________________________________
"I may have said the same thing before... But my explanation, I am sure, will always be different." Oscar Wilde
Oh, I thought that someone out there might have installed one somewhere, but how wrong I was. My apologies. I guess this isn't the place to ask for advice or input.
Maybe my sarcasm was misplaced. My idea was, if I wanted the manufacturer's suggestions, I'd go ask the mindless twit at the store. I wanted to know what people here thought.
But I was wrong. I was wrong. My apologies for expecting suggestions that were helpful.
If you noticed, I asked if anyone had any suggestions or PRODUCT RECOMMENDATIONS. That is, does anyone out there have experience with an installation like this.
How in the name of )(& is that inappropriate? Do we have to stick to politics here at Breaktime? Or is it still acceptable to ask if anyone has experience and suggestions, and not be told to ask the manufacturer.
Well actually, I've been thinking about gas fireplaces as a secondary heat source wanting to vent up a pre-existing central chimney. Casually looking in stores and some internet searching and all I could find were those ventless things and there is no way I'm putting in a ventless. If there is anyone around that has any data dealing with vented natural gas fireplaces I would appreciate it. Thanks. You pompous egotistical redneck, it's not a ponytail. I'm just getting ready for a mean combover and it'll sure look a lot better than yours!
Oh, rez, why don't you just contact the.... no, no, I promised I wouldn't be a smart@ss today.
You phrased it so nicely, maybe you'll get a response....
Really man, all I wanted was some data on vented gas fireplaces for venting in a central chimney. Seems a lot of heaters out there are thru the wall only. But I guess that's close enough since it looks like some folks associated with them are off the wall anyhow.
I know Rez; that's all I was looking for in my original post. But I seem to have offended the Lord God Mr Bob Walker, who now is insulting me because I was a little sarcastic. Perhaps I was more sarcastic than warranted, but I thought that replying to a request for recommendations and suggestions from people who've "been there" with a suggestion to "contact the manufacturer" was a little on the pointless side. To WayneL5, if I offended you, I apologize; I just thought that was a bit self evident. To Mr Bob Walker, if you think you are important enough that you can offend me, you're wrong. Your importance to me is not measurable with any technology known to man. Please return to your politics.
So, you can get sarcastic with me, but if I get sarcastic with you your shorts end up in a knot. How sad.
BTW, my technical posts out number my political posts.
.________________________________________________
"I may have said the same thing before... But my explanation, I am sure, will always be different." Oscar Wilde
Edited 12/20/2002 5:09:24 PM ET by Bob Walker
Man, I don't even want a gas fireplace now.
Where's the door?
Edited 12/20/2002 7:28:49 PM ET by rez
Put your PC in the center of the room and get warm from the hot air that emanates from some of these threads <<<<grin>>>>>
Steelkilt Lives!
Roar!
there's never a good playground teacher around when you really need one....
m
My first roar, just in time for Christmas . . . .Steelkilt Lives!
FHB mag has always been one that stands out for substance in it's articles. Sometimes I see it as so unfortunate that posters can't contain themselves from aggressive comments that demean. Hence a new side to the phrase 'substance abuse'. :O)
It just happens that I'm installing a gas fireplace for a client (for the first time), and though the problems with venting have been resolved, I cruised this thread to see if maybe I could learn a bit more...
Talk about a legitimate query getting derailed!
I'm been guilty myself a couple of times of getting flippant or sarcastic, but it sure looks stupid when somebody else does it!
To Cairo in the original post; I don't know what make of FP you're installing. The one I'm doing is a Vermont Castings and the DV pipe Is a 4" pipe within a 6" pipe. The airspace between the inner (chimney) and the outer is the cold air supply for the burner, so I suspect that the 40% efficiency for a tall chimney has to do with the intake.
I'm merely speculating on the above, but from the literature on the install I'm doing, the DV arrangement is critical to the performance of the unit. In my case, there was a lot of efficiency value changes related to distance, slopes, #'s and angles of elbows of the DV pipe. Jules Quaver for President 2004
Thank you. Your post to rez was very helpful. i don't know what make I'll be installing yet either; that was the whole point to the question. I'm looking for ideas that might suit my installation. And yes, i got sarcastic. And that's too bad. I'll go hide my head in shame. And I doubt I'll ask for help any more.
You weren't the one that started it, so don't take it personally. Sometimes the internet emboldens people to respond in ways they otherwise wouldn't. (I've been guilty of it too.)
This is mostly a good board and you've made good posts in the past so just ignore the wise a s s crap and move on.
Good luck with your fireplace project.Jules Quaver for President 2004
You weren't the one that started it, so don't take it personally.
Huh? He got pizzy in msg #3. He should take it personally. He got a very legit answer to the main question he was asking; so he had a second question that didn't get an answer, and after his attitude in that message, do you wonder why?
Look at all of the hundreds if not thousands questions that get a lot of responses here where a number of people go to long lengths to help folks out. Did that spirit of helpfulness just disappear one day, to come back a day later? Or did folks look at the thread and decide not to bother? And why is that?
He can get sarcastic with other people, but gets a bit worked up when other people do unto him. ________________________________________________
"I may have said the same thing before... But my explanation, I am sure, will always be different." Oscar Wilde
My sarcasm was not aimed personally; your comment was; however, that's your loss, not mine. Life goes on for those of us with brains.
My sarcasm was not aimed personally; your comment was; however, that's your loss, not mine. Life goes on for those of us with brains.
Since you have brains, let's take a look at that. You posted a question, Someone responded suggesting that you talk to the manufacturers. You responded with:
Thank you. That's exactly why I posted the question here on Breaktime. I would never have thought of checking with the manufacturers. Who would have thought of that one? Amazing that someone could come up with that idea. I really appreciate your input.
I guess I'm pretty stupid, because that looks an awful lot like the comment was aimed at the person who posted the second message - "I really appreciate your input." [Emphasis added.]
On a more philosophical note (in my experience those people with brains are always interested in philosophy) can a sarcastic comment ever not be aimed personally?
QUOTE
1 : a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain <tired of continual sarcasms>2 a : a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language that is usually directed against an individual b : the use or language of sarcasm <this is no time to indulge in sarcasm>
ENDQUOTE
And don't get too excited about that "usually," the exceptions would be were it is directed at a group of individuals.
________________________________________________
"I may have said the same thing before... But my explanation, I am sure, will always be different." Oscar Wilde
If you noticed, I asked if anyone had any suggestions or PRODUCT RECOMMENDATIONS. That is, does anyone out there have experience with an installation like this.
For you, I'd recommend ventless as a primary heat source in a bedroom.
________________________________________________
"I may have said the same thing before... But my explanation, I am sure, will always be different." Oscar Wilde
The literature came with the unit, plus discussions with the local supplier, who also does installs.
In my case, it's in a geodesic dome, with the DV exiting at 90 degrees through one of the pentagons which is effectively about an 80% pitch at the exit point and at an angle to the FP.
HO wants the DV hidden within a mantle "cabinet" behind the FP, so making the vent run from FP to wall without exceeding the desired elevation of the cabinet, created some peculiarities with some compound angles relative to the stove. Not difficult from an installation standpoint, but the advise we had was to stay within the parameters of the DV spec.
It was all new to me, so understanding the venting has been the challenge, if you will.
Jules Quaver for President 2004
Was wondering how the sheetrock on the geo went?...sitting in his nowhereland.
"sitting in his nowhere land..."
Actually, that about sums it up! We just got the plumbing and HVAC and wiring done and inspected, so it's gonna be after the holidays before the insulators and rockers fly at it.
This Fall has been crazy! HO, who's doing the wiring, was out with his back. I had to move DW's parents out here from NH. My Dad was getting really feeble and, just before Thanksgiving, finally went to the great beyond...I had to spend a lot of time before and after his death driving back and forth dealing with the stuff one has to deal with. (450 mile round trip)
DW is a Home Health RN and they're going 100% to laptop computers with some kind of medical software that is new and full of bugs. She's been working 12 hour days.
Now I find out today, I got a bunch of shirt tail relatives that invited themselves to descend on us for about 5 days over the holidays....
I'm going to lock the gate on my driveway Christmas Day, snuggle up with DW and a good book and try not to think about the garage slab I'm gonna pour the next day! (Ain't self-employment wonderful?)
Actually, I'm a calm guy, all is well and I've got too much to be grateful for to let a few obstacles unhinge me. And I'm REALLY grateful to have that gate that I can lock!
HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO YOU AND YOURS, REZ!!!Jules Quaver for President 2004
And a Bloomin' Thankful Roar! to you and yours....sitting in his nowhereland.
Cairo, I just installed a "Majestic" (made by Vermont Castings) natural gas, zero clearance fireplace in my new house. Also had one in my last house so I obviously like them. Both have double wall chimneys out the roof and both are between 15 and 20 feet long. If there's an efficiency loss I don't notice it. My present unit is 24,000 btuh rating and it does real good. Installed in a room 14x24 with an open stairway to 2nd floor.
I set it up with a thermal switch mounted to the bottom of the fire box to turn the fan on when the temp. raised enough to blow hot air into the room. Also, use a wall mounted t-stat to turn the unit on and off so I don't have to mess around looking for a remote. The dealer can supply you with these if your unit doesn't come with them which mine didn't.
Hope this helps. Don't think there's any political BS in this response but we'll see!
Harry's Homeworks
Rhode Island
That's exactly the one we're installing...and similar controls...appears to be a nice unit. I have a Vermont Castings woodstove in my shop; It's about 20 yrs old and is still like new.
The gas unit is really well built and easy to work onJules Quaver for President 2004
Hey, went searching for something in the archives and stumbled on this thread.
Got to wondering about the guy in the domehome you were building for.
Seeing a couple years have come and gone I was wondering if you knew what the guy's final opinion of domes were now that he's had a bit of experience living in one?