Natural gas line feeding garage apartment is about 100ft from the main meter and underground before it surfaces to enter wall.
Gas has ceased to flow in that line while the main house is still supplied from that same meter.
No sign of leakage, as in gas flow registering on the meter, with appliances in main house off.
I don’t know how old the piping is but the last time the system was serviced by the gas company was in 1987 and the gas has flowed fine until now.
Could a contaminant have been introduced to cause blockage at a later date or could water have been included through the city gas supply and accumulated in a low spot in the line to block gas flow?
Digging the line up is not an option. Putting in a new line is not an option. If I can’t figure this out in a couple of hours then it’s toss a perfectly good gas water heater and install electric.
Anybody ever rotorooter a gas line?
Replies
Call the gas company's emergency number. They have service people on duty 24/7. They want to investigate all kinds of problems, immediately.
Gas company has been there. They don't know where the line runs and don't appear to care. They offered the possibility that there could be a water blockage and since it's not in the line from the street to the meter it's not their problem.
That's a peculiar point of view, from a public utility. In the places I've lived the gas company inspects all parts of the system, giving very specific advice how to deal with anything gas related, on the home side of the meter.
On their side of the meter, they've always been overly cautious, replacing anything which didn't seem up to par.
I'd be curious about what the state public utilities commission would have to say about that minimal amount of interest on your gas company's part.
Up here in Northern Ohio the gas company is only responsible for the line from their main to the meter. And except for imminent damage, as in the smell of gas, they just say its our problem.
I would offer that the HW tank, or any gas-fired appliance, has a control box on it to regulate the gas flow. Wonder if there is a problem there.
Ralph, how do you know that the flow is minimal or not at all? Except of course cause it ain't heating. Did you take it apart? The likelyhood that a black iron pipe is corroded is low, you did say it was black iron, right? Water in the line from the actual gas source is just as unlikely. In a 100ft run a bad fitting is possible but you should be able to smell the gas, unless, God forbid, its under a slab!
If you do pressurize the line with compressed air and its clear you may force the 0.5lbs of pressure gas back into your house and past the safeguards there. Might want to consider that.
FYI. When the gas folks come out to work on a line and they "replace" it it's more likely that they're running a plastic line thru the iron pipe. They did that for mine.
Good Luck, Smoke outside and no big logs in the fireplace. :}
ciao. ted "You can have it fast, good or cheap. You can only have two of the three. Fast and good, it won't be cheap. Good and cheap, it won't be fast. Fast and cheap, it won't be good. Now, what's your choice?"
I'm with Jayzog, just approach it with caution. start at 10psi and don't try taking it up to 100. Shut everything off where ever you can but the line your trying to connect and see if you get air flow. Increase pressure and hold, crack a valve some place and see your getting what your compressor is supplying. If your getting flow right off the bat gauge it and it may be a regulator/low pressure problem.
The line shouldn't be pressurized until it's disconnected from the main. Then there's little hazard in taking it up to 100PSI.
The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel
That's what I said DON'T take it up to 100, 4-7 is normal flow and of course you have to have 2 open ends to establish flow you can't free a block if one end is still attached.
I fixed it.
Turned off gas at meter.
Dug around in the dirt to find where pipe first entered the ground by the house. Main feed has four tees. Located tee to house. Found leg in the basement. That leg has three tees. Removed cap from main drip leg. Got a couple of ounces of water.
Went back to the garage apartment. Disconnected incoming pipe from water heater. Directed blast of compressed air through pipe. Went back to basement. Water all over the place. Did that several times.
Estimated amount of water blown out of line to be quart or more.
Hooked everything back up.
IGNITION!
This is one of my best long-term customers. A month ago I determined that the gas flow had stopped - yes, I took the piping apart at the water heater.
I recommended he call the gas company. He did. They were of no help. Wrong side of the meter. He then called a plumbing company. These guys are supposedly licensed for water, gas, sewer - the whole enchilada. The poked around for a while but couldn't figure it out. Sat in their truck for two hours waiting on a call back for assistance from the gas company. They finally recommended that my customer convert to electric. They were also supposed to fix a water leak at his pool heater. Water still leaks. Too much time sitting in the truck.
Customer calls me back, relates the above. Asked me to handle the replacement. I told him I would try to resolve the original problem myself before spending a grand of his money to install an electric water heater and a new home run to the panel.
Took less than a hour to get the job done. Customer thinks I walk on water and is going to deny any billing for service the truck sitters might present.
Looks like I get to fix the leak at his pool heater, too.
Whyfor do I have all these woodworking tools?
So when do we get our cut?
The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel
Edited 12/4/2008 8:51 pm by DanH
Why for do I have all these woodworking tools?
I've asked myself that question too, when I've found myself in similar peculiar situations.
Working as a carpenter teaches us how to think logically and use our imagination creatively. We take two-dimensional drawings and turn them into full scale homes.
Because we must first envision the result, our minds get a lot of practice at figuring out how to deal with things similar to the kind of problem you just solved.
So having a good carpenter's sense of things allowed you to work through this problem while the two service guys were almost immediately stumped by it.
Edited 12/5/2008 11:01 am by Hudson Valley Carpenter
When it comes to technical abilities, there are basically three types of people. Ignoring the "clueless" group, you have:
-- People who know how to do what they've been taught, or what they've done before.
-- People who can intuit how to do stuff they've never done before.Most of the folks that hang out here are in that latter group, but many of your run-of-the-mill service people are in the taught it/done it group. Intuitive types usually chafe in a 8-to-5, do-what-you're-told blue collar role.
The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel
I can't argue against intuition, 'cause I'm a big believer. It's a regular practice of mine to allow my intuition to guide me by quieting my mind and following impressions which arise from within.
That often brings me into a more spiritual awareness, a freer, bolder and happier approach to life than my ordinary mind and it's limitations allow.
Edited 12/5/2008 11:33 am by Hudson Valley Carpenter
I've done some gas pipe work and never seen water in the pipe. Small amounts of dirt and crud in the drip leg but no water. So I would want to know where it came from. I would be checking to see if more was accumulating or if this was a onetime shot from the main gas line.
Maybe I have been lucky in the lines I have worked on but that much water would really get me worried about it being a symptom of a bigger problem.
Glad to hear you took care of it.
That much water? Wow, BigBill and I agree that's way too much. Of course it may have been filling up for 10years so....
congrats. Thanks, I learned something today.
ciao, ted "You can have it fast, good or cheap. You can only have two of the three. Fast and good, it won't be cheap. Good and cheap, it won't be fast. Fast and cheap, it won't be good. Now, what's your choice?"
I looked it up.
The max allowable water in "mainline" natural gas is supposed to be 7 lbs per measured million standard cubic feet of gas.
Water, in some amount, is always in gas, that's why the drip leg on each run. Except when a run dives under ground so the lowest part is usually inaccessible so you have to find another way to drain it. Out of sight, out of mind.
Bet no one ever thinks about draining a drip leg otherwise there'd be a petcock as standard.
Here's a dumb one too, there might be a valve that doesn't look like a valve.
Had it happen on my water line. Even longer story shortened, late at night called city water to shut t-valve off at the street since my main was ceased. They asked over and over are you sure since it's gonna cost $95 (weekend afterhours)
Me; "Yes I'm ******* sure, you *******retard, just *******get some one the **** over here right ******* now!!! There's the valve than the block wall, it's the only ******* valve!!!" As the full 40psi is jettisoning across the basement from a busted pipe.
A 1/2hr later I'm snowblowing and shoveling the front yard to expedite finding and getting to to the bell that I knew was inside the curb line since I nearly clip the mower blades on it all the time. We had 1' or more snow on the ground plus at the curb what ever the plows had piled up, so it wasn't a ridiculous idea. Water works guy shows and he wants to go to the basement before opening the bell cause that'd be an additional charge. He goes to the corner of the basement where the meter and main enter, bends over, pulls out a small crescent and turns what looks exactly like nothing more than a plug in the end of the T that comes through the wall. I had even looked at it prior to calling service and determined it was only a plug and as rusted as it also was I didn't dare touch it, and the water stops. I'll be damned was about all I could say to it.
Gas runs at really low pressure. I would try to blow out the line with compessed air.
Yeah, I think blowing it out is the only option. If it's iron pipe it should withstand 100PSI at least. Of course, you need to dig up the junction with the main pipe and disconnect it somehow.
The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel
Could there be a concealed shutoff somewhere?
Cut the fitting off the appliance end and run a fish tape in it. IF it comes out wet...well..there ya go. If it jams up ( I doubt it) start looking for an Ele. Heater.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
A fish tape won't get through an elbow.
The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel
Compressed air I got. We'll see what happens.
Going electric would be so much easier.
If it's soft copper, there may not be an elbow. I didn't see where he said there was.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
True, I don't believe he said. Could be plastic.
The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel
Several months ago the natural gas company replaced all of the gas lines in my neighborhood.
They started at one end of the street and worked there way from house to house.
They were in my back yard for only an hour or two.
The gas lines in my neighborhood were about 50 years old.
The meters were at the back of each lot.
They came in and dug a small hole at the meter and another small hold up next to the house so they could get to the gas line at both ends.
Then they used a machine to pull a new line through the pipe. Maybe the new line was plastic.
They moved all of the meters from the back of the lot to right beside the houses.
Minimal damage to the yard. Whatever machine they used was pushed through a 3 ft gate.
Did not tear up the yard or anything. Crew of three guys.
Yeah, they did that in Minneapolis about 15-20 years back and blew up a house.
The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel
It's time to hire a contractor to find, and fix, the problem.
First reason: He has the knowledge, tools, and materials to fix it in a speedy, safe manner.
Second, you will want his opinion with you should the problem turn out to have been caused by the gas company crew.
Personally, I suspect the line was disconnected, and capped, by the gas crew. Perhaps they thought it was an illegal tap.