GC Talk about Hardie Siding & Window Install Gone Wrong
Dear all,
I posted here long ago in preparation for da dream house, asking tech questions (many thanks!) Since then, after a lotta patience & money, da dream house is done.
Only, now that we’re in it for about 3-4 years, we’re noticed potentially some big problems.
The house was covered in hardie: both in traditional plank siding style as well as in 4×8 sheets with a tamlyn vinyl product to butt the edges. The trim is cedar. I started noticing the edges of the 4×8 hardie beginning to bow a bit (not delaminate) and not be completely flush and flat, so I called an inspector. He looked around and noticed no J window flashings that’s supposed to be above the windows. He also noticed how very tight the siding was to the sheathing (ie no drainage plane for water that gets behind to escape out). Then, he took off the cedar trim under one of the windows and (lordy!) the window, he says, was not properly flashed/ installed.
OK, just one guy’s opinion, so I had a hardie contractor come out and take a look. He said crummy install: caulk is where it shouldn’t be. Way too tight behind the siding. He gave me a detailed report with pictures (showing the wrong on my house) side by side with pictures from Hardie install manual (showing the right). Do you really need to put 36 nails in a 4×8 sheet of Hardie? I’ve started the process to see if Hardie will honor their warranty on this install (my guess is no).
Lastly, I had a guy shoot infrared pictures to show where, if any, the water intrusion is. Yup, it’s there, all along the tamyln vinyl edges.
One year warranty is over (obviously). And the GC and I didn’t end things well when the project wrapped up some 3-4 years ago (he was paid in full; I received a COO. We’re square there.). I’ve got all these expert opinions (siding bid, infrared, inspector) because i don’t wanna waste his time or mine barking up a defect that really isn’t there. I wanna give him a well defined problem and either give me check or fix it right.
So, how do I approach the guy? How would you want to be approached? Should I get a whole house estimate cuz we’re looking at siding takedown and install as well as window removal, proper flashing and reinstall (ie: a likely huge dollar figure: 6 figures). Does this potentially big dollar figure mean he’ll just tell me to take a hike? Although I want to give him a fair shake to fix the problem (ie no lawyers), I’m concerned that if I talk to him, he’ll just fold his shop and liquidate assets, so that even if I end up suing (which I really, really don’t), they’ll be nothing to sue for. Is this covered by GC, siding sub insurance?
My guess is that he’ll probably tell me that I received a one year warranty and since it’s year 3-4, it’s my problem. The rub I see with that is this is a workmanship issue. I have a hard time believing that a window not installed correctly is warranted the same way as one installed correctly. Or that hardie installed defying manufacturer’s instructions is warranted in the same way,
Lastly, we hired the GC to build on our lot. We didn’t hire the sub, so I don’t see us going after the siding sub. Plus, it’s not like the house was already built, or in the process of being built.
Yeah, it could be worse, I could have mold, but let’s not go there, OK? : D
Thanks,
W
Replies
Where are you?
The laws vary quite a bit from one state to another, so it would be helpfull if you told us where you are, or at least filled out your profile.
Basically, your talking about a latent defect, which you as a non-expert would not notice within the one-year warranty period. And, which is the direct result of poor workmanship.
My location
Sorry about that.
I'm in Chicagoland.
thanks,
W
I agree w/ Jigs ... it's a latent defect. But I've no idea how that kind of thing is handled w/ contractors. For designers (e.g. architects and engineers), this falls back on their Errors & Omissions insurance and they have to make good to get it corrected ... regardless of when it was discovered (before, during, or after construction). How this is handled w/ the contractor and the notion that a one year warranty is provided, I'm not sure. You are clearly talking about a failure that took a bit of time to discover. If he didn't install the Hardie sheets properly and if it is clear the windows were not installed to e.g. industry or manuf. standards, you may have a case. Maybe talk w/a well versed construction attorney would be worth if nothng else the knowledge of what your options might be. Whether I exercise an option or not is another issue, but knowing where I stand often gives me a way to let the issue go and either make a decision to act on it (and how) or not. Playing a guessing game otherwise would tend to drive me crazy and make me neurotic.
would tend to drive me crazy and make me neurotic.
How would we tell?
Good point, Dan. And I thought I hid it well!
approach to GC
thanks for the replies.
Do GC's want to be brought in early in the process? "Er, I think I've got a problem here..."
Or at the end, so I can give 'em a dollar figure? "Er, I think the estimates amount to a ba-gillion dollars.."
When do ya'll think this should become a legal issue? Is he walks? If he says he's going to "get back with me," how long is a reasonable time to wait?
What about the insurance angle? Should this become an insurance matter altogether, maybe the way is a letter to the GC, so that he can bring it to his insurance people.
thanks again,
W
I don't think there's any cookbook answer. The GC might fight you tooth and nail, might give in and make some concessions, might just ignore/delay you. (The third is probably the most likely.) Insurance, of course, would only factor in if there's an insurance-backed warranty or if the contractror carries some sort of errors and omissions coverage (which may or may not be required in your locality).
You basically have to flip a coin and decide what's the best approach. Maybe contact the GC first, maybe talk to a lawyer first. Sometimes a few soft words can get action where charging in shouting wouldn't, in other cases you have to get the guy's "attention" from the start.