The architect Frank Gehry has been commissioned to design a community in my town. Very cool says I, even if not all of his work is to my taste. The funny part is the headline in the newspaper: “Frank Gehry vows project will not be an eyesore”. Ha. The guy has well known works all over the world and he has to defend himself to my little plssant town that he won’t design an eyesore. If they don’t want something excitingly different (that some will describe as an eyesore), they should hire a different architect.
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In Kansas city there are building an new city arena.
They ask for design/engineering prosals. There are several architecture firms in town that do do a lot of designs for sports facilites.
Two teams formed up. Each one with a couple of archect firms and engineer firms.
One of which was headed by Gehry, although it was not clear what if anything he was doing for the project.
The other team had a number of drawings and model showing what they planned.
The Gehry team had the eqvialent of a couple of back of the envelope drawings. There claim was that the design would be so specatular that people from all over the world would come just to see Gehry design.
They lost and their response was "how could you".
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Maybe they wanted to charge for the bid :)
My newspaper is often inaccurate, but they made it sound like he already has a contract with the developer. Gehry's difficulty will be in getting city approval to build whatever he designs.
Like I said, he isn't to my taste. But if the developer owns the land and likes what the architect designs, and if it is up to code, I say they should be able to do what they want. It's not like we have an historic district to "protect" or anything.
"In Kansas city there are building an new city arena."KC has a couple of big sports firms already (HOK and 360 Architects). They do a large percentage of the arenas in the country. 360 did our pro hockey arena (the Columbus Blue Jackets).Strange that the city would invite another firm, especially one without stadium experience.
Yeah well, like him or not, his design would most certainly have ended up looking better than the 360 architects / HOK SVE Sprint Center they are working on now. That thing is UGLY! As an architect, I know you cannot judge the merits of a project under construction, but this Sprint Center design is boring and bad. Also is not going to be LEED accredited.
I can't remember completely, but I DO believe that Ghery had teamed up with another firm that also had sports facilities experience. Certainly not as powerful a team as the 360/HOK colab, and definitely not as politically connected. That whole selection process was conducted behind closed doors and the committee consisted of some city councilmen, the mayor, and members of the downtown "business community", which included realtors who were in the process of selling land and other deals to HOK, chamber of commerce members intimately connected with HOK and 360, and so on. I remember specifically reading the newspaper articles between the lines several days/weeks prior to the official selection that indicated that the decision had already been made. That, more than anything, probably contributed to why the Ghery proposal was a bit light. They knew there was not much chance of them getting it.
I, personally, despise Ghery's work. But I detest even more the connected-up, backroom political wheeling and dealing that yeilded the ugly design that is going up now and the crooked financial package that it took to get the thing built in the first place.
>>>>"But I detest even more the connected-up, backroom political wheeling and dealing that yeilded the ugly design that is going up now and the crooked financial package that it took to get the thing built in the first place."My city (Lincoln, NE) is in the middle of that sort of thing right now. The powers that be are sweetening the pot as much as possible to bring in outside developers to built a bunch of nasty crap that will pollute our downtown and what used to be a wonderfully revitalized warehouse district. All in the name of "economic development."Gehry can be all right. I think he's appreciated for all the wrong reasons. I really despise "rock star" architects, whose commissions come not from talent and skill, but glamour and name recognition.
That happens a lot. The hometown advantage is big in these things. Such decisions are often made before they even start.Didn't realize that the other firm was a 360/HOK collaboration. That's interesting . . . i'd heard that 360 started by splitting off from HOK and taking a lot of their people, leaving some bad blood between them.politics and strange bedfellows ;)
HOK and taking a lot of their people, leaving some bad blood
Amazing how "HOK" and "bad blood" so often seem to go together. But, I may be biased from the number of folk I know who used to work at the Dallas office.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
IIRC they did not invite him in. Just ask for proposals.And I think that Gehry teamed with one of the local groups, but I am not sure.Elerber Becket lead the winning team and while they are headquarted in MN they have an office here. And both HOK and 360 are part of the team.http://www.ellerbebecket.com/portfolio_template_252.htmlThis was the Gehry team.http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/stories/2004/08/16/daily11.html" Renowned architect Frank Gehry and lead firm Crawford Architects unveiled the team members for their bid on the design project for the Sprint Center.The Kansas City-based team members are A. Zahner Co., Black & Veatch, Group One Architects Inc., Leigh & O'Kane LLC, M.E. Group Inc., Phillips-West Public Relations & Communications and Patti Banks Associates. The other team member is Wallace Engineering, based in Tulsa but with a Kansas City office.Crawford Architects is based in Sydney, Australia, and Kansas City."This is a local team, and we've brought the world's greatest architect to be part of this team," David Murphy, Crawford partner and principal in charge, said during a news conference Tuesday at the offices of A. Zahner, a longtime supplier to Gehry.Gehry will come to Kansas City to make a presentation as part of the interview process with the city, Murphy said. "IIRC they lack of any experience with sports facilities was one of the complaints with the Gehry group.But was got me was the though that they should win becase it would be a Gehry project, not that because they had anything special to offer..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
I have seen a lot of Frank Gehry's residential stuff. The Master will make sketches of his ideas, then everyone else has to figure out how to build it. He will not show up on site because he has no answers on how to build it. The Foreman or Superintendant is the real hero for figuring out how to make skyhooks.
Strange that the city would invite another firm, especially one without stadium experience
Disgruntled HOK ex-employee now working for City, maybe?Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
What architect could you EVER hope to get that would design something that SOMEONE would not think was an eyesore?
Nice attitude about your town, BTW.
"Nice attitude about your town, BTW."
My town complained when an exhibit including Renoir came through because there was nudity depicted in his work. The powers that be here are a bunch of small-minded, short-sighted, cronyistic bozos.
Not everybody likes nudity in "art".That doesn't make them small minded, just because they disagree with you.
Every step we take toward making the State the caretaker of our lives, by that much we move toward making the State our master. [Dwight D. Eisenhower]
Not everybody likes nudity in "art".
Come on Boss, Renoir was hardly known for his obscene nudes! For Gods sake were not talking about Rodans bronzes here!
Theres nothing more dangerous then the small mind of a small town!
Doug
Speaking of works in bronze, Ghiberti's Gates of Paradise (the originals) will be in Chicago at the Art Institute this year, straight from Florence.Having seen the copies in place at the Duomo in Florence, I'd highly recommend taking this exhibit in if anybody is in Chicago.Sorry for the hijack.
I've seen some of Ghiberti's work way back when I was in high school - took a little field trip to France.
Thanks, a little weekend trip to Chicago is always a nice getaway.
Doug
Whoa, I'll talk about Rodin's nudes! There was a guy who highly appreciated the female form...only person since the Greeks to come even close in sculpting it...NC Art Museum had a great exhibit of his work, never heard anyone complain, matter of fact, they're getting ready to build a new museum with a big collection of his stuff...Stanford has quite a sweet collection, too.Can you tell, I like the guy<G> "But to be honest some folks here have been pushing the envelope quite a bit with their unnecessary use if swear words. They just put a character in to replace a letter. But everyone knows what they're saying." Sancho
Oh, wait a min...were you talking about Godzirra's Rodan? HA. "But to be honest some folks here have been pushing the envelope quite a bit with their unnecessary use if swear words. They just put a character in to replace a letter. But everyone knows what they're saying." Sancho
Snort
I like Rodan as well - but you gotta admit, he has some provocative pieces! I cant think of the name of the bronze by Rodan but the male member is protruding right through the woman's body.......... If I could readily find my book on Rodan I'd scan a copy for ya. :)
Certainly Rodan did a lot more provocative stuff then Renoir. Saying that Renoirs stuff shouldn't be viewed because of the nudes is being closed minded, unless he's got one of those private sketch books that I'm not aware of! <G>
I like all art, even the nudes........especially the nudes.
Doug
Edited 1/30/2007 9:39 pm ET by Doug
Edited 1/30/2007 9:41 pm ET by DougU
'Not everybody likes nudity in "art".
That doesn't make them small minded, just because they disagree with you.'
No, what makes them small-minded is trying to censor said art because they don't like it. If you don't like the art being displayed in a gallery, don't go to see it. But stop trying to prevent it from being displayed.
My town complained when an exhibit including Renoir came through because there was nudity depicted in his work. The powers that be here are a bunch of small-minded, short-sighted, cronyistic bozos.
Until I read that paragraph I had forgoten that you lived in Utah. Please dont take that as a diss either.
Doug
The powers that be here are a bunch of small-minded, short-sighted, cronyistic bozos.
Well, and your town should be so different than any other? <g>
Really, it's in what wierd, unique, way; not "how much" most munis seem to be screwed up.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Gehry has now designed buildings for both universities i've attended (the Univ. of Toledo art college and the Univ. of Cincinnati). What's funny is his style hasn't changed much in the last 15-20 years. But the more his work keeps getting produced, the more people decide they want it. Despite that they probably would've hated it back when he was first getting noticed.
He did one at my alma mater, too. Cleveland's CWRU.
Ribbons of stainless, just as can be seen in much of his work.
Unfortunately, some architects get so big and well known that it's not how good their design is, it's that the the big name architect's name gets attached to the design. My theory is that some (not all) push the envelope and once they get to a point in their careers that they feel they don't have to justify design, they push the envelope.
I would argue that. I think his 'style' has evolved considerably. Recall his beach houses in Santa Monica and 'Decon' phase in the 80's. The current 'crumpled tinfoil' phase is quite a departure IMO. I think a majority of people here will never understand, appreciate or like (however you want to state your position) on anything but conventional and traditional styles. Kind of like learning another language, it's incomprehnsible until you study it.
If Gehry had managed to capture the essence of the architectural models and sketches in his Disney Concert Hall, it might have been a really exciting work. The models had spontaneity and near-violence to them. In an interior model, the pipe organ was depicted as looking like a pipe organ had exploded, then all the pieces shoved back together like shards of shrapnel. Very cool.However, I've always felt that the final building was far too controlled and refined. The spontaneity was completely lost in the final processes of construction and as it is, the building just feels really dull and derivative.I love the anecdote about all the polished titanium on that building. I don't know what final measures they've taken to resolve the issue, but residents in neighboring buildings were complaining because the hot LA sun was being reflected off the mirror finish directly into their homes, making temperatures unbearable.
From what i remember, they had to do studies of which panels were causing the glare, and then they sandblasted them to dull the surfaces.
if i am not mistaken titanium was used at the gugenheim in bilbao spain, the disney concert hall was stainless steel skin (cheaper). both similar buildings.
i also heard that the remedy was to scuff the stainless in strategic locations to prevent/subdue unwanted reflections.
this reminds of another unwanted view at the concert hall, when i was working there in 2001 with the ironworkers a bunch of us were riding the construction elevator on the outside of the building. somebody notices that you can see right through the big sliding glass doors at the condo's across the street and in one of the bedrooms there is a naked guy standing next to the bed (with someone clearly still in the bed from the knees sticking up)
so now everybody is looking at the window and we can all see it, the comments are flying, then we all see another man stand up naked and you can still see the knees and now the imaginations and comments are really running wild, the last thing we all expected is for the knees to turn into a third man standing and now the bed is clearly empty. it kind of soured the moment, as i remember. like i said, an unwanted view.
lastly i have to tell the story of 9-11, thats where i was the day the trade centers were bombed. i ride a motorcycle to work, so i had no radio, didn't find out til i got there. we all got sent home that day, it was thought we might be a target being as how it was right downtown etc.
a few weeks later i went to use the bathroom (porta potty) and when i opened the door there was this huge drawing of an airplane on the inside back wall, i think it even wrapped around the sides a little (the wings) it looked like it was coming right at you and it was a great rendering even though it was done in sharpie, (there was a rumor about a cetain crane operator who is a very talented artist) the detail was amazing you could even see that the pilots were cleary arabic by the beards and the turbans. the caption read "dangit mohammed i sad the world trade center not the world turd center" ya see there was this little overcrowding issue with the porta johns, i almost died.
LA sun was being reflected off the mirror finish directly into their homes, making temperatures unbearable.
A good example of exactly what is wrong with architects! Idiocy. Total unawareness of local conditions, etc..
His stuff may be cool at the finish, but cost over-runs and missing details give the contractors nightmares.
Originally, the Disney Concert Hall exterior was to be White Stone!!! If you think Ghery's idea sounds OK, let me educate you. The calculations on a CNC machine for cutting each curvy panel would take months. Cutting, grinding and assembly would take years. 50% of the stone will be wastes in the process. The weight would more than double the structural frame for the building and its parking structure underneath. When a building is all white, the people standing next to it will be snow blinded. As soon as the building is completed dirt would settle on it and greatly diminish its brightness, and when it rains there will be streaks all over it. Ghery quit for a while because they made changes to titanium.
During the construction of his own house a hammer fell off the structure and embedded itself in plywood. He saw the artistry in it and so he framed it.
I'm really not qualified to criticize an Architect who is world famous and listed in Architectural Magazines top 10 Architect. Compared to him I'm nothing.
Personally I would not want to live in a house designed by a famous architect. Wright's homes had major problems, and Gehry's probably will too (problems beyond eyestrain!). Give me snug and maintainable over fantastic and cutting edge. OK, there is at least one famous architect who could design a home for me - Susanka. And I would have liked Greene and Greene if I could have talked them into a room or two with big windows to bring sunlight in (the better to see the fabulous woodwork with).
Let me detail a house in Venice he designed. Its a corrugated metal building in Venice Cal. Its a three story building with a mezzanine at each floor making it really a six story one.
All the room were open, which means there is not a normal ceiling. So the lower floors are always cold, cause all the heat rises. The master bath was open, meaning that if you throw toilet paper over the wall, it will hit the people downstairs in the living room. The big question is can you sit on the can and not make farthing, tinkling or dumping noises so the guest downstairs can't hear you?
"And I would have liked Greene and Greene if I could have talked them into a room or two with big windows to bring sunlight in (the better to see the fabulous woodwork with). "Probably not.I read a book on them and includes was a couple of letters from client to one of the Greenes.IIRC she was asking about the time frame to finish, cost over runs, and a few questions about the size of some furnture or the finish or something. It was written in a very polite tone and really wanting information.The reply was more I am the architect and it will be done when it is and don't dare question me again..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
i agree that his work has evolved since the old days (especially Santa Monica and the whole 'whites' vs. 'grays' scene . . . remember your arch history?) <g>More recently he seems to have settled into a cliche of himself. He's taken advantage of his French aeronautics CAD program to make these complicated forms, and his projects are all melding into the same 'crumpled paper' model now. Personally i like his work, just wish he'd push it more. He's becoming the Chihuly of architects.Heard he was doing a $100 mil development in NY, then there was some criticism. Is that still on? Also the Guggenheim?
Atlantic Yards is a go. Guggenheim got canned for now. Though he did do an interesting building, nearing completion for IAG (Interactive Group, Barry Diller's company). I don't like everything he does by any means, though I think he has definately broken some new ground. I liked the bent wood furniture he did for Knoll and the corrugated cardboard chairs. I think for many (not necessarily you, since I trust you are an open minded architect :-) anything remotely modern is automatically rejected as being weird, unaccessible, etc. I've just heard the same opposition too many times without a substantial or valid critique of the work being dismissed.
>>>"He's becoming the Chihuly of architects."Brilliant.So will the sign of his final downfall into the trite and fomulaic be when you can buy a Gehry in airport gift shops?
Edited 1/30/2007 4:25 pm ET by tuffy
or when you see it at Target :)
Gehry made it into an episode of The Simpsons a few years ago...they hired him to design a new concert hall for the city of Springfield. It closed after one performance, so they turned it into a prison. :-)
View Image
Edited 1/30/2007 5:11 pm by Stuart
Edited 1/30/2007 5:11 pm by Stuart
Still, it should be a real, recognizable language--not baby talk or Martian (I know I'll get arguments that Martian is a real language and to that I reply "click, chirup, chirrupp, chirp" (my keyboard doesn't have Martian).) Furthermore, the language of the architect should have some semblance to what the locals speak wherever he is building.
Sometimes the architect can teach the illiterate to read.
"The guy has well known works all over the world and he has to defend himself to my little plssant town that he won't design an eyesore."
peoples is funny. Was spending a bit of time in WV about the time the new FBI fingerprint facility was going in. People were upset, afraid the crime rate would go up.
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter WFR
"But when you're a kibbutzer and have no responsibility to decide the facts and apply the law, you can reach any conclusion you want because it doesn't matter." SHG
I'm going to stick my neck out and surmise that in 30 years Gehry's buildings will look dated and silly, i.e. like the leisure suit. That assumes the owners will have been able to maintain them so that they haven't disappeared entirely. Whatever happened to "form follows function?"
i am going to agree with you on that, it may very well go out of style, then again it might become classic
i do think that his designs are all in the same vein, i have seen a few of his buildings that look quite a bit alike, while i am no expert on the designer, i did build one of his designs.
in 2001 i was at the walt disney concert hall for about a year with the structural ironworkers. it was quite an accomplishment to hold that job, they were lined up every day, (i waited over a month to get on) and if you couldn't cut the mustard you were gone pretty quick.
at the end of the job we all got T-shirts that were printed with a rendering of the 3-D blueprint that we built the place with along with the words "The Ultimate Challenge"
Whatever happened to "form follows function?"
Yeah, I agree. I get tired of huge monuments to architects' even huger egos. Architecture that fights the environment in which it is placed, doesn't use any natural ways of heating, cooling, lighting, ventilation. Doesn't relate to the use for which it was intended. Is nearly impossible to maintain and costs a fortune to heat and cool. Lots of architecture is like many works of art these days--making a statement is what it's all about, rather than being esthetically pleasing and in the case of architecture, doing the job for which it was built.
You and Andy are being too sensible here.
be what's function have to do with anything anyhoo?
"being human is a complicated proposition"-DavidxDoud---Never show a fool a half finished job---GrampsyI feel like a bunny in a hillbilly meadow at noon..........jjwalters
Ok, I know I'm going to get jumped for saying this, but Gehry is IMO over rated and a product of the "superstar-syndrome" that befalls talented individuals with a great PR team.
Don't get me wrong. Some of his buildings are absolute masterpieces of post-modern, post-structural, deconstructionist or what ever the heck you want to call the Gehry style of design.
But in other cases, his works seems to be that of an ego maniac more intent on designing something that will further the Gehry mystic than he is on designing a structure with site and function in mind. His "organic" style often seems anything but when viewed in context with their surroundings.
Case in point - Chicago's Gehry band shell in Millennium Park. The form is playful (aren't they all) yet makes no effort to acknowledge nor reference the great architectural past of Chicago - a past that confronts the site from every possible angle. His BP pedestrian bridge is even more self indulgent, as it meanders pointlessly across Columbus drive serving more to separate the portion of Grant Park to its east than to unite the two.
Gehry is unquestionably a great architect and has designed many noteworthy structures. But he also enjoys the benefit of an unquestioning public and patrons that all too often select him for the prestige his name will bring to a project rather than the actual form of the structure itself.
If it were my town seeking to bring him in to a project, I'd be highly suspect and push for as design contest that pits Gerhy against other rarchitects of note. Simply bowing to the master may yield a well designed building that looks wholly out of place.
"Excitingly different" does not necessarily mean architecturally significant or functionally relevant.
All that said, he is an amazing architect.
A Ghery designed addition to the Art Gallery of Ontario is just wrapping up. It is quite subdued by his standards. He got pushed a lot by the community, and although he whined a bit about the budget and not being given carte blanche to do whatever he liked, I think the building is much better for it.
What would cement his place among the really great Architects for me would be if he moved off in a fresh direction and explored something new. He has worked the same roof forms to death with little advancement since the mid 90s.
Personally I think Gehry's work is bad Fung Shuei.
Jams my head up everytime I see his work.
I don't think he cares about what he puts where as long as it looks good on his drawing board.
So there : )~
PO "I dunno guys. Methinks some people have way too much extra time on their hands". Jer
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