I was messing around in my storage shed today and gave one of my generators a tug since it hadn’t been started in awhile. It’s a 13HP Honda w/out electric start. Yanked once, nothing. Went to yank again and about pulled my shoulder out of the socket. Wouldn’t let me tug.
Generator hadn’t been started in probably two months. Wasn’t drained but did have Stabil in the tank. It was running fine when I put it away last.
Where to start?
EDIT: Anyone else having a lot of small engine problems with this “new” gas? The past year I’ve had more problems than I can ever remember having. I had a 14″ Husquarvarna (did I spell that right?) demo saw with probably 20 hours on it need a $500 rebuild last spring. Tech said either I wasn’t using enough oil in the mix or it was bad gas. I’m pretty careful about my mix so I’m about 99% certain that wasn’t it. He told me not to use gas that’s more than two weeks old in a 2 cycle any more. The scoring of the cylinder was remarkable.
Edited 4/20/2009 8:59 pm ET by dieselpig
Edited 4/20/2009 9:11 pm ET by dieselpig
Replies
Those 13 hp Hondas are brutes to pull start. Maybe you just had a rough weekend?
The new gas, mixed with 2 cycle oil is nasty stuff. It's caused me all kinds of problems with various engines. Probably not a bad idea to use Stabil right in the gas cans you use to fill your small engines.
LOL... naw it was the engine, not the weekend. I played with it for a few minutes and it definitely wasn't turning over.
Yeah, I've been using Stabil in everything that won't get burned within a week. Keeping my fingers crossed.
Any ideas about this 13hp Honda?View Image
Pull the sparkplug and try pulling the rope again,
But you probably knew that.
If that don't help I'm thinking that the whosamawithchie thing that connects the engine to the generator won't disconnect.
Kinda like a frozen clutch?
As in maybe the generator itself is siezed up and won't let go of the engine.
My brother is a small engine mechanc. PM me if you can't get this figured out and I'll see if I can relay some info your way.
"When the spirits are low, when the day appears dark, when work becomes monotonous, when hope hardly seems worth having, just mount a bicycle and go out for a spin down the road, without thought on anything but the ride you are taking." — Sherlock Holmes, 1896
dieselpig,
First I would pull the plug to make sure it wasn't gas locked. Sometimes the gas will leak into the cylinder and fill it up.
It it still won't pull the rings are probably rusted to the wall. Squirt some PB Blaster or similar and let it set for a day, then try.
All gas seems to have ethanol now and it causes all kinds of problems. It separates , it grows bacteria, it attracts water ect. Everything or mine gets Stabil now and it seems to help.
KK
Not letting you pull sounds like compression lock. Either that or a mouse nest.
Shoot... good point Dan. I did just clean one out of my tractor that was stored in the same shed all winter. Can't believe I didn't think to look for that.
I'll start pulling parts off next chance I get and let you guys know what I find.
Thanks all.View Image
I would second what coonass said pull the plug and shoot some wd 40 I'm trying to get my head around where a mouse could build a nest that would lock up the engine or not let you be able to turn it over? now i'm really curious.
My Honda generator has the exact same problem. I'll near guarantee that the float is stuck....keeps dumping gas into the cylinder...fills cylinder part or all the way with gas, leaks by the rings over time. Pull the plug, pull the rope, betcha a fiver gas sprays out da hole. Pull until no more gas comes out, drain oil and replace. I priced a carb for mine, was so expensive that I just shut off the gas whenever I shut off the generator. The last time I forgot, when I went to check the oil, it overflowed when I pulled the fill cap, so much gas had run into the crankcase.
Good luck.
Bing
I'll do that Bing. And I'll let you know what I find. View Image
when you pull the plug, make sure the plug wire can't arc and ignite the solid stream of gas being pumped out the plug hole. ask me how i know that tip.
That's good advice, but I've done the pull rope and expel gas thing half a dozen times without doing anything to prevent anything incendiary from happening......
I'm guessing it's because the Honda spark plug boot sticks so far down past the loop that goes around the plug.
That or dumb luck...:)
Bing
Along the same line with the gas in the cylinder, if by chance the engine was tipped on its side for long, oil could have entered the cylinder throught the breather. Pulling the spark plug will tell.
When it rains it pours eh? Had my share of generator blues. Have a solar house so i run one for shop and one for charging house batteries. Having trouble with Honda is scary cuz theyre so reliable.
Been thru this one tho..but u description was same as mine when my Briggs Vanguard 14hp had a hung piston. SOB! Why ? hard say..know ur probably anal about mantainence. And it is a Honda which for me has always been one pull and were ready to go.But other than starter cord assembly f.u. theres only one thing that give resistance internally.
That dog of a Briggs on a Coleman Genny had to have rods put in twice;once on warranty..last time i said forget it hwne they wnted $900 to rebuild bottom of engine.Bought a noname (and I mean no-name at least on engine) Chinese 8k with good reviews from Amazon but when i unpacked it i immediately said.."god help u if u ever need parts". Tried to immediately return it but they wont take back anything u can put gas in. Stuck with it. Did start rite up/ quiet; couple good features but some odds ones. Cant run 110 and 220 at same time.Can hardly start my 2hp Grizzly planer altho 7000w coleman had no problem.Looking for a soft start gizmo to put on planer motor but hard get stuff like that in this part WV.
Soo...... I finally got around to getting a closer look at my generator. The short story is that it is currently running great right now.
Here's the long story; as you guys suggested, I first checked the oil to see if it was overflowing with gas contamination. Looked normal. So I pulled the plug anyway, held a rag over the hole, and promptly tried to dislocate my shoulder again. It still wasn't turning over.
So then I went to plan B which is how I normally go about fixing things that are broken. I started taking it apart. I pulled the recoil starter unit and found that I could manually turn the (whatever it's called) one revolution exactly. So I turned it 'backwards' my one revolution, put the starter unit back on, and took the single pull that it would give me. This was after shooting a bit of gumout into the plug hole and replacing the plug. Got a puff of smoke and it froze back up again. So I pulled the starter again.... Lather, rinse, and repeat two more times and it fired up. I ran it for awhile, shut it down, and it let me start it again just fine a few more times. Then I hit the kill switch and pulled the recoil again a bunch of times to make sure it wasn't just giving me the one pull. It wasn't. It's effectively, 'unfrozen' and working normally at this point.
So my question is..... what happened? What froze up and why? Is this a sign of my somehow not storing it properly? Or is it common to an oldish (5 yrs I think) motor sitting over a winter without running? Is it a sign of big trouble to come? Not a lot of hours on this reasonably expensive generator (Wacker 5.6 with 13hp Honda) so I'd like to keep it happy.View Image
Horizontal cylinder or vertical? When it was locking did you try turning it with the plug out?Could be it was oil bound.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -John Kenneth Galbraith
Now I'm gonna show my ignorance..... horizontal cylinder (I think). A little help here?
Yes, it was still locking up with the plug out. Plug in, plug out, all the same.View Image
If it locked without the plug in then it wasn't oil bound.Possibly there was a very thin ridge of rust in the cylinder, where the top ring had been sitting. Or it could have been a bit of cr@p in the camshaft gear teeth.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -John Kenneth Galbraith
sounds to me like the cylinder got a little rusty and that kept the piston from moving freely up and down (vertical) or in and out (horizontal)
Some premature wear to the piston rings may have occured. If so I would think it would show up as smoke in the exhaust or higher than normal oil consumption.
Going in to storage its always a good idea to put a couple of squirts of oil into the cylinder and spin it over a bit with no plug in it. Plug back in and store.
"When the spirits are low, when the day appears dark, when work becomes monotonous, when hope hardly seems worth having, just mount a bicycle and go out for a spin down the road, without thought on anything but the ride you are taking." — Sherlock Holmes, 1896
That's seems to be the consensus. I think I'll take your advice and squirt a little oil in there when I store it (them) from now on. I don't use the generators often any more... most sites have temp power.... but when you need 'em... not much else will do. Guess I better start taking better care. Thanks!View Image
Had a similar problem with some Mercruiser outboards. Turned out it was a burr in the seat that didnt let the needle seat.
davem said
when you pull the plug, make sure the plug wire can't arc and ignite the solid stream of gas being pumped out the plug hole. ask me how i know that tip.
He is 100% right! And I have a pretty good idea how he learned it too <GG>
A clue to being "fuel bound" is to check crankcase oil level. If it's over full you can darn near bet gas is leaking past the float.
Bill
Hi, had the same (I think) 2 cylinder honda , float sank, filled cylinders and crankcase.
ground the plug wire, pull over w/ no plugs in iy, and a rag over plug hole, pluu dip stick, if ocefill OR smalkls like gas, drain oil, pull filter and dump, then drop carn bowk and see why float stuck. good luck!
>>> A clue to being "fuel bound" is to check crankcase oil level. If it's over full you can darn near bet gas is leaking past the float.And if the crankcase oil is contaminated that badly with fuel, it's next to useless as a lubricant. Gotta change it once the float's fixed.Scott.
I was recently told the same thing by the toro service center. His comment was that the new Ca gas/emision regulations are the problem.. They had to make the carbs so tight to reduce the emissions that gas more than 30 days old loses enough umph to run the equiptment.
Diesel,
Two observations:
Last year, I found a $40 garage sale rear-bagger/mulcher Bolen push mower (retails for $250) that's just one season old. It has just one running speed with its govenor, and a small gas tank that below the cylinder level. The carb. on this mower doesn't have a bowl, just some type of reed material that regulates the slow and high speed needles path of gas from the tank to the intake valve. I covered the engine last winter and some treated gas was left in the tank. When I went to use it earlier this spring, it was locked, too. I'd read where another fellow here found that his cylinder had filled with gas while it was stored, also. So, I'm thinking that there is something to do with the cylinder drawing up the gasoline from the tank as the outside temps go between warm to extreme cold getting gasoline inside the cylinder and causing the problem... So, this coming winter, I'm running the tank dry before the coming winter...
In hearing how your engine would only turn one revolution, it sounds like one of your intake or exhaust valves/stems were stuck. When the lobe on the cam shaft comes around it can't push up one of the stuck lifters... Any chance that moisture, or gas with some water in it, got to the intake port or the exhaust port?
Using some upper cylinder lube like the old "Marvel Mystery Oil" mixed with the last tank of fuel might prevent the valve stem sticking inside the valve guide... If the engine is running fine now, you might consider running some of that type of upper cylinder lube to help dissolve the current old corrosion and help prevent any problems this season.
Bill
Thanks Bill.. that sounds like a good idea too. And I've got MMO on the truck already. View Image
I bought a Troy Bilt tiller for $50 because the guy thought the engine was seized up. The pull cord was jammed. I did have to spend a $100 for a carburetor to get it to run right.
I almost posted on this thread the other day to see how you made out. Sounds to me like you definitely had a different problem from my Honda.....If it still wouldn't turn when the plug was out, then obviously it's not a hydro lock situation with fluid in the cylinder....Lots of good suggestions here. The thing I'm wondering is if it could be something in the generator mechanism throwing a curve here.....ie; if there's something in the generator binding at the same point.I'm pretty sure that all small gensets are 1:1 direct drive, so if the generator were catching somewhere, it would be the same exact 1 full revolution.....maybe pulling it freed up......Probly the best bet at this point, if ya can't isolate it, is to get in the habit of starting it every 3 or 4 weeks, I guess. Good that it started, tho. Regardless of what the prob was, I don't think running it at this point will make it worse.....Bing
is it an overhead valve engine? - it could have been a valve stuck open and interfering as the piston approached top dead center - "there's enough for everyone"
It's not an OHV engine David... but good thinking.View Image
Interesting. I have yet to see a flathead honda ie Valves in the block.Karl
It could very well be that I'm dead wrong. I'm no mechanic.... hence the thread.View Image