Q for Mike Smith and the other pros out there that are getting paid for your proposals.
Have you ever found, working up a major remodeling quote for a potential client, that you have detailed out the scope and specs for the job, proposed the package, gotten paid for the quote work, and then had the client take the package, now clear in his mind, and shop it to competitive bidders?
Let’s say we’re talking about a $175K remodel package, for which the proposal fee was $3,500. Naw, let’s boost that up to $6,000. Some of those clients might feel that they might readily save that much bidding the job out competitively, now that they can spell out the scope and specs to others.
Replies
Hmmm...now you see the reason to GET PAID in the first place....lol.
Actually, what we found when we did highly detailed paid bids, with schedules, assumptions, allowance lists, etc., was that the "other bids" came back on pre-printed NEBS forms, typewritten one-page proposals, or even just phone-in bids. That quickly helped most customers make up their minds to use us alone. If, like you said, the client used your package to shop around, that's fine- of course you'd rather do the job, but at least you got paid well for the time you invested preparing the bid.
Bob
Here is my experience.
Once they have gone that far, they have developed a sense of trust and relationship with you. They usually want to stay with the same horse they waded into the river with.
I did have one client for whom I designed a $40,000 retro fit of an existing garage into a game room/bar go to another contractor to do the work. I believe they did that because they also had in mind some other off-permit work that I could not have done in good conscience and told them so.
With another client, things progressed from OK to bad to worse through the course of the design process, so I turned them loose and they did their own work, or half of what I had designed. They never got the print package from me and went with concept only.
The other jobs all stayed right with me, most of them good people. the process allows me to get to know clients and weed out por ones well before I am too deeply involved with them so I can back out before things get too bad or I get heavily invested in a potentially devastating relationship. they have the same right during preliminary work, but I find that they stay with the investment of time, money and relationship developed during preliminary design and definition of work
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
My response isn't directly related to your thread but in a general sense I find a humorous topic (hope this isn't inappropriate) within these similar threads. I'm a truck driver. I used to fear the 20 something girl in her sports car. Not anymore.............its the contractor cutting you off with these important items written on the truck
Company Name
Ph #
What they do
I don't know if you guys consider yourselfs a rolling billboard but I have considered the fun of having five of my friends call the number on the truck for a bid just to waste somebody's time. This most likely doesn't apply to most folks but man......why would you drive like that with all the information on the truck.??????????
Yes.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Gene,
Not only has it happened, I encourage it. As Pippin pointed out, a measure of trust has to have developed and their ability to shop it around only serves to reinforce it.
On the other hand, I just recently discovered that the arrangment creates an "out" for me.
I had been working with a client who had paid my usual fee of $5,000 on a proposed kitchen remodel w/ a budget of $100,000.00. After a year of dancing and drawings, it became obvious that the client needed a budget of twice that amount.
I brought in a Architect who claimed he could do what they wanted and for what they wanted to spend. (withan other builder) I pointed out to the Owners that the Archy was under no obligation to deliver the product at their stated budget, he was simply giving an opinion of what the design should cost to produce.
So..........at the Owners direction, I hired the Archy, he produced the plans and I paid the Archy, delivered the plans to the Owner, and invited them to contact me in the future.
I was able to fulfill my contractural oblication to the Owners and walk away. plus I got paid for my aggravation!
I have corresponded with Sonny Lykos about design and methods. Sonny is retired, and his sons run his Lykos Group contracting biz in Naples. He is a regular visitor here, and at the JLC site.
He says that for the interior of the exterior CMU walls, 1" foamboard and furring go up, then the gypboard finish.
To provide a structural tie at the top of each floor of CMU wall, a reinforced concrete "hurricane band" is formed and poured, at the same thickness as the CMU.
gene... your last post in this thread ( to McDonnell).. doesn't make any sense in the context of the thread..
hi Mark ! ... missed you this summer..... hell, missed you too, Gene..
in answer to your original question..
once i have sold the concept of them paying for my Proposal.... they are welcome to shop it if they want...
they never want... you really have to step on yur d*ck in order to screw it up after they've invested in youMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
hey mikie......whadda stepping on "ducks" have to do with this?
a rather fowl answer, doncha think?
how's tings up north?
The weather here in Maine is pretty fowl after Mike gets done with it in RI;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
A question I've wondered about on getting paid for the design/build process, is what about errors in the plan? Don't architects have "Errors and Omissions" insurance?
For instance, Mike Smith designs an addition. Gets his $5K fee. Homeowner has someone else do the project with Mike's plans. At the rough inspection it is discovered that there is an error that is going to cost $10K to fix.
It seems to me that Mike is going to get dragged into the solution on his own time and money, because his liability insurance doesn't cover design. Or does it?
What if the second contractor screws something up and there is a problem? Wouldn't the homeowner also drag Mike into the problem, and because he sold the design he would be liable?
Just wondering how it works.
Bowz
Bowz-
I can't say for sure, but I'm 99% positive that Mike makes it perfectly clear that his designs are for construction use by his firm only. If the homeowner has another contractor build from the plans, Mike is then off the hook. The plans should be stamped with big letters "For Construction By Smith Builders ONLY".
Of course, if the homeowner ignores this, has another contractor build off the plans, and there's a problem, Mike will still end up in court. It'll cost him a few bucks to have a lawyer defend him, but the writing on the drawings should get him off the hook.
Bob
my design contracts stipulate that the drawings are not for construction by anyone other than me..
if the homeowner doesn't hire me , they are free to use the drawings for concept only, but they have to have them redrawn to use for a building permit.
for our own use, i'm already on the hook for liability so we don't carry errors and omissions..
as the GC i assume all liability anywaysMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore