I just finished floor-sanding a large room in a 150 year old house. The floor was so beat up, with lots of uneven and crowned boards, and — worst of all — had been painted brown, that I had to use an agressive drum sander and edger; the U-sander just wouldn’t cut it on this job. It took three days, I probably took off 1/4″ in many places, but the results are fantastic. These are a beautiful reddish pine, and there is not a knot in the whole floor! (Why would anyone paint that?)
My question is how to sand those little corner triangles left where the 7″ diameter edger couldn’t get in? All the articles and books say to “hand scrape and sand” but with three closets, a whole bunch of nooks and crannies I’ve got like 20 inside corners to do. Palm sander just gums up on the paint, and I don’t think I am making any progress. At this rate it will take another three days.
I was thinking about sticking some kind of rotary rasp into my dremel, following that with the 1/2″ Dremel sanding cylinder, then finally hand-sanding to smooth it into my machine-sanded areas. But that’s just an idea with no experience. Those triangle-shaped detail sanders look like they might work, but I don’t want to invest in a trendy tool for one job without hearing about someone’s hard-core experience. Anybody have a way they like to tackle these rough corners?
Replies
Stop trying to "reinvent the wheel". Use a hand scraper. They come in two sizes and the trick is to keep them sharp (read: buy an 8" file along with them). I use two of each. Cuts the sharpening and blade rotations (rough to fine) in half.
The paint will dull the blade fast so you may want to dedicate one scraper for paint and one for when you get down to the wood. 20 corners is a lot but it will go fast once you get the hang of it.
One final tip: Having a box fan is handy especially when in closets. Closets and corners can get pretty warm and having a fan blowing lightly over you and moving the air around is very helpful.
F.
i'm shocked at how many people get obsessed with the need to use power tools for everything when a nice sharp hand tool will do a better job faster. You had the right answer on the first reply and the sanders are still grinding and smoking the paint in this corner of Breaktime
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Holy Crap! I got the Piffin seal of approval! LOL! Great minds think alike.
Sometimes the low tech and cheapest method is the best. I figure 3 min per corner. 5 if you're a novice. They are going to spend that much time moving from corner to corner with all those tools and sanding pads.
One thing I don't think I mentioned in the first post - be sure to wear a decent pair of knee pads. Twenty corners is still an hour on your knees.
Anyone try those gel knee pads out yet? They look like the exterior is mad of used tire treads.
I have two types: both have foam on the inside and look like turtle shells on the ext however one has a rubber ext while the other is hard plastic. I use the rubber ones when doing wood flooring and the hard plastic ones when doing tile. Recently though I have turned to a foam pad instead because the knee pad straps are uncomfortable.
F.
Try sanding and finishing Baltic pine that's had a japanned finish for a living and you'll find out very quickly why power tools are better.
I find the detail sander better for corners as it cuts in closer without knocking the baseboard about like a 1/4 sheet sander does.
IanDG
I'm with piffin 100% on this one... There has got to be a reason all the pro floor finishers I know use scrapers... If there was a better way, they would be using it. Sharp scrapers won't take more than about 5 minutes per corner. And, yeah, as someone said... remove any quarter round or molding first... That's a given on any floor sanding/refinishing job.
Good luck with it...
--- BRICK
"They say that there is a fine line between genius and insanity. I like to color outside the lines...and then eat the crayons." ~ Me
...and once the finish is off, dampend wood scrapes even better..not wet, just damp.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
A Fein Multimaster will sand right into the corners. Not a cheap tool, but if you have a lot to do, this will make it faster. You can put a fairly coarse grit on it, like 60. Ryobi makes a toy that looks slightly similar but it won't do the job you have.
But, a sharp scraper will work just about as fast. The carbide ones work well but you need a diamond stone to sharpen them. Gets expensive if you just replace blades rather than sharpen them.
I agree with the scraper votes, just buy a really good one like the Sandvik, easy to change blades and "comfortable" as scrapers go ...
If you're determined not to everything by hand, I'd first remove all of the finish(es) with some paint stripper-- they form a remarkably hard surface, and gum up a sander quickly -- then go at it with a good corner sander. The little ones are made to sand furniture between finish coats, not to remove wood, but you may be able to rent a HD one -- or watch TV while you're sanding down the corners with a little one ;-)
If you already have a belt sander, you can use it to take out much of the 7" x 7" corner triangle, and only use the little Fein where the belt won't reach. That should save some time.
-- J.S.
I hope Rick comes back to read the rest of the thread.
Yes, with the right belt, belt sanders can remove a lot of wood quickly.
with the right belt, belt sanders can remove a lot of wood quickly. And with the wrong belt and the wrong touch, they can remove even more wood too quickly...
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Rick said he'd worked several days on this floor and probably took off a quarter inch of wood in some places. I didn't actually recommend a belt sander, but it can take off a lot of wood quickly, if that's needed. Certainly more quickly than a palm sander.
I also recommended stripping the paint, rather than sanding it down. Rick was gumming up his sander with the paint. But, of course, a belt sander with a coarse grit can cut through paint quickly, as well. Still gums up most sandpaper.
Many roads lead to a single destination.
My point was that a belt sander can do a wonderful job of removing undesired wood and/or paint, but sometimes a belt sander can be too agressive, and ruin the object...not that I have any personal experience...but I have heard stories of anguish...
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Wow ! Lot's of posts on this topic since I left it. Certainly looks like it should be helpful for others perusing the archives.
I actually took off Friday to do the work, so I did not get to see any of the info posted after June 10. Since the advice from Frankie and PaulB was SO strong, I just went out and bought a better (Sandvik) scraper. I basically agree with Piffin about hand-tools, so I was not unhappy to go that way; i.e. I did not run out and buy the Fein.
It certainly was not any 5 minutes per corner, Brick, but I did get through all 20 corners in one day. Here's how it went for those interested:
Yes, of course the quarter-round shoe molding was off before starting any of the job, Jet Boy. This house was built without any shoe-molding at all, so all of the sanding had to go right up to the baseboard (which was a full 12" high). So that meant, I REALLY had to get into the corners.
The scraper votes were right on. The Sandvik took the paint off in less than a minute. Not so easy, however, to scrape this petrified wood down an eighth or so. I guess the chisel could have worked, DP and Firebird, but I think I would have had more gouging. And I figured the floor did not have to be absolutely level in the corners. Unless a stray table leg lands up there, it is purely a visual issue. So I only had to go down far enough to get the wood discoloration/darkening off.
There is no way my belt-sander would have gotten close enough to help on this, John. In addidition, they are difficult to keep from gouging when not continuously moving over a larger sized area. So I basically took it down with a sequence of hand-sanding (60, 100, 150) way in the corner, then feathered out a bit to eliminate the big humps/ledges with my 1/3 sheel orbital sander. (It's got a felt backer over the metal platen, Mitch.)
The paint stripper would have probably worked, 3D, but I am fairly certain that it would have left some discoloration where it ran over onto and penetrated the bare wood --- perhaps leaving even more sanding to be done.
I did wear knee pads, Frankie, the soft rubber kind. I definitely did not want to use the hard-cap kind for fear of denting the floor. And I stayed away from the black rubber tire-tread kind for fear of leaving dark marks (like the ones the rubber backer of the edger left whenever the sandpaper ripped). I wore out my trusty old red-rubber ones on this job, so I will need to consider what to buy next.
Finally, I crawled around on the whole floor looking for gouges from the drum or terrible height differences between boards that left areas inadequately sanded. Those little spots I touched up with #80 by hand (can put a lot of finger pressure on a small area), then went over them again with #100 and feathered with the orbital. I think that step was well worth it, and only added about another hour or so to my day.
It's beautiful, and the first coat of varnish goes on today. LET"S EXTEND THIS THREAD TO EVERYONE"S CHOICE AND/OR EXPERIENCE WITH VARNISH. I wanted long life, tough finish, abrasion resistance, and no lap marks. I was not concerned about fast drying, and I preferred a slight ambering in order to match what the other floors looked like. That led me away from water-based varnishes. Based on two articles in Fine HomeBuilding and one in Consumer Reports, I went with the MinWax Oil-based Polyurethane (not the spar varnish obviously). I am sure you guys have lots of other input however, so let's hear it. In addtion, what about sealer/filler underneath the varnish? It is my impression that it just saves a coat of the more expensive varnish. So for the extra 10 bucks, and because this is not a softwood, I am going with 3 coats of varnish, instead of the sealer plus 2.
Hey Rick,
It was so nice of you to respond with your thanks, feedback and results.
Not everyone does, in fact I would venture to say that few do.
I for one am usually curious as to the outcome of the posters situation.
Good luck,
Eric
right on, two scrapers.
the Sandvik carbide to remove the old finish and then a standard scraper that you can file and sharpen to finish it. the carbide blades are not sharp enough to do the finish scraping, but they will work to get the old finish off.
carpenter in transition
I use a Sandvik scraper to remove the old varnish/paint and a Festo delta sander [triangular head] to finish sand.
IanDG
If you have a lot of material to remove in the corners and you're feeling brave a sharp 1 - 1 1/2 inch chisel will make quick work of those areas. Just don't go below your final floor level and you can finish with a scraper.
I wanted to suggest that but I was afraid I would get jumped on.
I do it all the time and it works great. Often is done and finished with just the chisel.
Sharp, very sharp!
Eric
Paint the corners.
Sure it would look silly if you just painted one or two, but twenty corners? People will think its art. Tell em Andy Warhol did all of his places like that.
my $0.02-
since they're all square corners- as opposed to acute- any 1/4 sheet orbital sander should do okay. use very coarse paper (60-80?) to get rid of the finish then go back over it with finer stuff. one MAJOR suggestion: hook up the sander to a good shop vac- preferably something like a Fein that allows you to plug the sander into it, so it comes on when you turn on the sander. this will not only keep the dust to an absolute minimum but even more importantly, will work wonders in reducing the crud build-up on the paper, which is especially crucial when sanding paint or varnish. the paper will last A LOT longer.
i'd also recommend a sander with a fairly firm platen. my makita has a felt backer pad that is quite a bit harder than the foam on my porter-cable.
have fun!
m
I just need to ask. Did you take off the molding between the baseboard and the floor? This frees up alot more floor that the bigger machine can get to easily.
I was moving a fridge in the kitchen last weekend, and gouged the cheap linoleum floor. Underneath it was a beautiful old growth doug fir board just like all the bedrooms on the second floor. Guess I'll be renting the U-sand again. :(