(and no, I don’t mean your WIFE if she happens to be named “Mollie”…)
I’m talking about those handy little metal fasteners for hollow walls, where a set of “wings” expands as you tighten a bolt. This is NOT a toggle bolt, where the toggle just falls off when you remove the bolt. The thing I’m describing leaves a little round silver “plate” in the wall when the bolt is removed. I’m trying to pretty up a house where the former occupants went a little crazy with the things, and I need to deal with maybe 20 of them.
Some people say “just take a hammer and a punch or nail and knock ’em through the wall”. I’ve seen some bad experiences with that. If you happen to be close to a seam, you can take a fist-sized piece of drywall with the Mollie when you knock it through! Even if you’re not close to a seam, this process can start cracks and have other unpredictable results.
Other people have said “just dimple it into the wall (with a hammer) enough to fill the hole with spackle.” Same issue as above, plus I’ve been in a house where that was done and failed miserably after a few months. I don’t want the karma.
Best results I’ve had were by drilling the center of the Mollie with a bit somewhat larger than the bolt was, until (theoretically) the “plate” of the Mollie comes off and the rest falls through the wall. I say “theoretically”, because sometimes the drill bit will catch the Mollie and spin the whole thing through the wall, leaving about a 1/2″ hole. Better than a 4″ hole, true; but…
Just wondered if anyone had any better techniques for getting these things out of the wall with minimal damage to the wall.
Thanks,
George
Replies
drill as you say , or use a small hole saw and drill around it. Either way it becomes a patch
If you've seen patches fail, I'd bet that they didn't tape over the hole when they spackled...buic
Hmmm... they sure didn't. I didn't know you COULD use tape with spackle, at least the kind of spackling compound I've seen lately (very light, and dries very fast.) Could you elaborate on that technique?
G
Here's your regional differences. In some places-east-they call joint compound-spackle.
A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
As Calvin said.
Where I am spackle and joint compound are names used interchangeably. Technically not the same thing.
Set some paper tape with joint compound and the patch should be permanent...buic
You can actually remove them by reversing the steps of putting them in. Back the screw out as far as you can without disengaging the threads, them push hard on the screw (or tap it carefully with a hammer). This will straighten out the wings inside the wall. You can then carefully pry the fastener out. It sometimes takes some finesse, but I've never seen one I couldn't remove this way.
John
That's a good technique, but it doesn't ALWAYS work. Sometimes the molly has been painted over and the screw can't be driven back in or in other cases, the drywall is so fragile that tapping on the screw head just drives the molly deeper.
In those cases, I tap the flange just below the surface of the drywall using a nailset. Then I just spackle (actually, joint compound) the dimple. I use plenty of pressure to ensure that the the hole is completely filled. I haven't had any problems yet...
Cut them out with a 1/2" hole saw. Cut some plugs from scrap drywall.
Mix some setting compound (not spackle or joint compound), roll the plug edges in the compound and insert in hole, making sure plug is flush or at least slightly recessed.
Strike off excess, and let dry. ( I use quick setting compound)
Mix more compound and apply a thin coat over patch - NO TAPE. Let dry, sand to flush, and now you can match the original texture and/or paint.
Edited to say: Personally, I dimple them with my hammer and use the setting compound, the 5 min, and then sand when dry.
_______________________________________________________________
'That's all I've got to say about that' - Forrest Gump
Edited 2/11/2007 8:50 pm by Heck
I've read the other suggestions, and the way I have found to work the best is to take needle nose pliers, bend the round plate that you can see toward you, and by working it back and forth, it will snap off. It is a separate piece, and it will snap off. You can then push the rest of the molly through into the wall cavity.
I will then chamfer the hole and fill it with spackling compound. You could also use drywall compound - premix or 20 minute, which would be faster. Sand it smooth when dry and it will be just fine. Of course, till someone wants to put a nail or screw in exactly the same place.
Bryan
"Objects in mirror appear closer than they are."
Klakamp Construction, Findlay, Ohio
Bryan:
To add to your suggestion, I've found that the fastest approach to removing hollow wall anchors is to take a tin snips & make four 90 degree cuts on the outside of the collar. Once the cuts are made, use a pliers to compress the collar inwards to the diameter of the original hole and push the anchor through to the inside of the wall.
Rookie
Rookie,
You must use superior mollies. All the ones I have ever encountered I have been able to break off fairly easily.
Bryan"Objects in mirror appear closer than they are."
Klakamp Construction, Findlay, Ohio
If the molly spins when you are drilling it off, the bit is likely not sharp enough or the wrong size. Try a sharp or new bit just slightly larger than the screw hole. Incidently, I work on airplanes for a living and that is the standard practice for removing rivets in the skin... drill off the head, and punch the remaining portion thru with a small punch.
tap it with a hammer till it countersinks a bit and then patch...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Make sure you use setting type mud !!!Welcome to Breaktime
Home of
The Aristocrats
light wieght spackeling works fine...
napalm or paln "B"????Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Thanks for all the great ideas, guys! I knew there must be some better approaches. Using the needlenose to snap the ring off is probably what I'll try first.
Back when I was young, I would get on my Stegosaurus back in Michigan and gallop down to the hardware store to buy a can on Spackling Paste. (OK, I'm not quite THAT old!) It came in a can that looked like a metal paint can, and when you popped the lid, it smelled pretty much like wet drywall (or joint compound.) I live in California now, and I don't think I've seen the "spackling paste" in a can for many years. Made me smile to realize this might be a "regional terminology" issue. Thanks for explaining!
The stuff I've been buying is (I think) made up of polyester microbubbles, in a base of latex much like a latex paint binder or Elmer's glue. The latest stuff goes on purple (so you can see where you've patched, on a white wall), but dries white! Very cool.
G
Let us know if you are able to snap off the flat ring with needle nose pliers. That way I will know if it was good advice or not.
Bryan"Objects in mirror appear closer than they are."
Klakamp Construction, Findlay, Ohio
"Some people say "just take a hammer and a punch or nail and knock 'em through the wall". I've seen some bad experiences with that. If you happen to be close to a seam, you can take a fist-sized piece of drywall with the Mollie when you knock it through! Even if you're not close to a seam, this process can start cracks and have other unpredictable results."
ROFLMAO
Just back the screw out a 1/2" and drive the bolt into the wall and patch the drywall.
busta
"It ain't da seafood dat makes ya fat anyway -- it's da batta!"
To Bustaduke and Deskguy:
Your comments aren't really helpful, and aren't appreciated. The "ROTFLMAO" comes off to me as ridicule. You two are EXACTLY the kind of contractors I would NEVER hire (or never retain if I DID hire.)
Like I said before, I've lived in a house where IDIOTS did sloppy work like hammering mollies into the wall and slapping some spackle or other goop over them, and it looked like crap (sooner or later). It becomes a MAJOR problem if some other hapless person tries to put a nail or Mollie in the same place. I didn't enjoy having it done to me, so I'm not going to do it to someone else.
Maybe if you have an isolated Mollie in the middle of a wall, you might be able to get away with knocking them through the wall like you suggest. But if you have 4 to 6 per square foot like I do in some areas, you'd be STUPID to start whackin' em through the wall!! (Unless you just LIKE replacing 12" square sections of drywall.)
Apparently your mothers never taught you the one about "if you can't say anything nice...." (or even helpful.) This is FINE Homebuilding magazine, not "The Journal of Fast and Crappy Carpentry." Take your snide comments somewhere else, while those of us who want to EXCEL learn from each other.
G
Apparently your mothers never taught you the one about "if you can't say anything nice...." (or even helpful.) This is FINE Homebuilding magazine, not "The Journal of Fast and Crappy Carpentry." Take your snide comments somewhere else, while those of us who want to EXCEL learn from each other.
Wow, that seems a bit harsh. I mean it's not exactly like you're taking your own advice about "if you can't say anything nice..."
Like I wrote in another post, I've had good success just dimpling mollies and spackling over. I don't see this kind of repair as being in conflict with FINE homebuilding. Knocking them all the way through makes a hole that's just a little too big to easily (and permanently) repair.
And yes, if someone attempts to drive a nail in that very spot one day, it will create a mess. However, I know what my customers answer will be if I ask them if they want the $1.00 repair or the $20.00 repair. None of them would ever ask for the more expensive repair just in case they ever drove a nail there. In fact, they would probably think I was a little off for even asking.
I like you idea of drilling them out, but it didn't work for me (molly spins out) and I don't even try it anymore. Of course, if you're opposed to using spackle (goop?) altogether, then that pretty much just leaves you with replacing sections of drywall.
I suggested dimpling and spackle too...
so much for FHB from this end...
ROAR!!!!Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Wow, that seems a bit harsh. I mean it's not exactly like you're taking your own advice about "if you can't say anything nice..."
I didn't START it. However, I have been known to fight fire with fire.
"...I know what my customers answer will be if I ask them if they want the $1.00 repair or the $20.00 repair. None of them would ever ask for the more expensive repair just in case they ever drove a nail there. "
Wow, I have SO many issues with that statement:
(a) Is it really $1 or $20?
(b) It's not JUST "if they drive a nail there". I've seen patches like this fail with just normal wall expansion/contraction (i.e. "all by itself"), including running cracks that spread across a wall.
(c) With all due respect, is it possible that no one asks you for the "more expensive repair" because the only people that hire you already know that you ONLY do the cheap kind of repair?
Here's my deal: (and disclaimer to DonCanDo: this is not just directed at you personally, but rather to whomever it fits.)
(1) I expect better quality workmanship from myself AND my subs, and I AM willing to pay for it. All those guys who say "I've never had any problems with dimpling and spackling" really don't KNOW, because six months or a year down the line, when the dimpled place cracks out, the homeowner may not remember who you were, or may not want to call back the same person who did the slap-dash repair in the first place (been in BOTH places myself.)
(2) What if there were an option BETWEEN the "$1.00 repair" and the "$20.00 repair"? Would you even be interested in finding out about it? THAT'S why I started this topic, and surprise, surprise -- there ARE some better ideas, which SHOULDN'T cost $20 per Mollie, given a little practice. There are some very smart people here, who know better ways to do things. And for me, that's what FHB is all about.
(3) To anyone capable of reading, I made it clear AT THE VERY OUTSET that I wasn't satisfied with "dimpling and gooping." If you don't have anything more enlightening to add to the topic, then MOVE ON. Don't waste your time and mine. This isn't the place for you to post your endorsement of the way you've been doing it (wrong) for the past (5/10/15/20/all of the above) years, and it DAMN sure isn't the place for you to post
Rolling On The Floor Laughing My Ass Off (and he might as well have added, At You, Geebee!)
****************
I submit I MIGHT be a tad oversensitive about contractor "attitudes", having just completed a big remodel where several contractors smugly thought they knew it all; yet, they couldn't understand why I might want to use stainless-steel screws on an outdoor structure!! (... and I could go on...)
When you "dimple" drywall, it's not like wood where it just compresses (and actually may get a little stronger for the compression.) Gypsum crushes when you dimple it, and it ESPECIALLY crushes when you try to drive a 1/2" diameter steel ring into it (much less through it.) You now have a crushed, weak spot that can be up to 2" in diameter. Don't believe me? Try it yourself, or look at an area where you have 'rocked up next to a window opening, and maybe the drywall didn't lay nice and flat against the window framing, so you decided to give it a few more whacks with your hammer (if you're still using nails), or drive your screws a little deeper.
And I'm sorry, but I refuse to believe that putting a 1/8" layer of joint compound over a shiny, plated metal surface that is no longer firmly held in place, surrounded by crushed drywall, constitutes a stable repair. Even "spinning" a Mollie through the wall, and filling the 1/2" hole with setting joint compound or even spackle, is a much stronger and more stable fix. If I can make that hole smaller by snapping the ring off, so much the better.
geebee
You my friend are they type of customer I would never work for. Sounds like you may have a few mollie bolts lose in your head.I would walk out on you after talking to you for a few minutes because I can tell that you are a ******* and a *******.I've been doing this for over 35 years and I can patch drywall with the best of them and you would never find any of my patches."I've lived in a house where IDIOTS did sloppy work like hammering mollies into the wall and slapping some spackle or other goop over them, and it looked like crap (sooner or later)."The sloppy work is not caused by driving the bolt into the drywall and then patching it. The sloppy work is caused by the homeowner hiring an idiot who doesn't know what he's doing or an IDIOT homeowner like maybe like yourself trying to do a job that you're not qualified to do.busta :0)"It ain't da seafood dat makes ya fat anyway -- it's da batta!"
Buy your wife some nice picture frames and start covering. Pop open a cold one, sit down, turn on tv, your done.
Insert the bolt a few threads, so that it protrudes, then hammer on it. Nine times in ten you can straighten the molly enough to remove it. If not you can decide whether to just pound it through or drill it out.
and no, I don't mean your WIFE if she happens to be named "Mollie"...)
Sorry, I thought from that little line you had a sense of humor. I see now that it was just your preemptive strike against any wit that might rear it ugly head.
So since I now know you have no sense of humor but you discussion title implied some, I will say that My daughters name is Molly and I find no humor in your use of her name to attract people to discuss your problems. A proper discussion title would have been "A beeter method of removing unneeded mollie bolts"
I don't know if you've ever read any of the other discussion around here, but they're littered with "cute" little suggestions. I for one think it actually adds to alot of the discussions. Keeps things lite and funner to read.
As for having 4 or 6 in a square foot. If you had mentioned that in your original post I might have realized the true seriousness of your dilemma. With that many mollies stuck that closely together you will never truly know if any of the discussed removal techniques might lead to unseen compression, cracking, and /or overall weakening of your drywall. The prper technique in this instance would be to cut the drywall from stud to stud in the affected cavity, and 6" above your highest, and 6" below your lowest mollie.
You then need to install some furring strips on the top and bottom of the patch. If you can mortise these furring strips into the studs and secure with glue and screws, so much the better. (key here: Do not use Piffen screws for this attacment) Secure your drwall patch by screwing to the studs and furring strips. (you MAY use Piffen screws for this attachment) mud,tape,finish, texture,paint, take picture, post in photo folder for all to behold, pop open finely crafted micro brew (I doubt you would drink anything that wasn't Finely crafted) recline your chair, turn on tv, done.
Lighten up. For all the typing you've done, you could have tried a couple of the methods and let us all know what worked best for you.
OK, Deskguy, point taken. I DO have a sense of humor (see "Stegosaurus"), but maybe it's a little worn out these days. Two things about your post (the one I reacted to):
(1) It came right after Bustaduke's (which is clearly not YOUR fault), and
(2) It lacked a "smiley" { :-) }. Yeah, I know a lot of intended-humorous posts here DO lack "smileys", and some people think they're dumb. But, they DO serve the purpose of letting everyone know you're kidding (since we can't see your handsome grinning face!) Both emails and Forum postings are vulnerable to this lack of visual subtext.
IMHO, Bustaduke's post is still not appreciated, for reasons stated earlier. I can't seem to wrap my head around why his post would be funny in ANY context.
Anyway, thanks for taking the time to explain in detail how to replace a small section of drywall (a good half of which was serious!) I have replaced drywall before myself, but hope to avoid it this time if possible. I have not been able to get onto the worksite for a couple days to try these suggestions for removing mollies (other stuff going on at site), but I hope to get there soon, and I will report back in.
Since I can sense I'm being set up here, I'm afraid to ask: "what's a Piffen screw?"
(a) Other Piffens?
(b) $25, just like downtown?
Googling "piffen" certainly comes up with some interesting hits. Here's one of the better ones:
“Here at Piffen Kruk, we start with the finest natural Pif from the ancient Krukken Flyyen forest of Jaffjkkok. We remove the Kruk Flut by hand and roast the Pif kernels to perfection. Then we swirl the freshly roasted Pif into a bed of sweet dark goat whey, creating the perfect blend of creamy, viscous Piffen Kruk that generations of Jaffjkkokers have grown to rather care for.”
Thanks for the snicker, and if I had to do everything YOU described, I would pop open whatever miserable brew came to hand (even grocery-store house label), guzzle several, and sink into obliviousness! :-)
gb
I think yur the last sup.. er... getting dished up...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Edited 2/15/2007 5:16 pm by IMERC
the correct spelling is Piffin.. no "e"...
use the search function here... google is no help...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Dang, I spelled it wrong too. A thousand pardons to the almighty, all wise and hopefully all forgiving Piffin.
no problem...
just send us everything you outright own (more tools and life will get better) at yur expense and ammending yur new found plight will be considered...
other wise........................Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Don't want to bring any bad mojo down upon myself. Just post you full name, address, social security # ( got to 1099 you for all the stuff your getting) You can be assured that I would not abuse this information in anyway. Trust me. I'm an anonymous guy on the Internet. What could be safer??
The poblem is that IMERC doesn't really exist, he's more like a myth than a man.
So send all your stuff to me, and I'll get you my BIL's SS#._______________________________________________________________
Common sense and a sense of humor are the same thing, moving at different speeds. A sense of humor is just common sense, dancing. -William James
now we have a comfliction of bibical perportions..
I gave him my addy and yur SS#....Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I hate it when that happens._______________________________________________________________
Common sense and a sense of humor are the same thing, moving at different speeds. A sense of humor is just common sense, dancing. -William James
Man, this thread has it all, drama, anger, laughter, and at last the guy who points it all out.
WOW (personally i would have just re-rocked the whole room)
I also learned that people get REALLY angry if you tease and don't do this--> :-)>
GB, you've been regstd over a yr, and posted 20 some times. You should be a little more familiar with the things that go on here. Get yourself a thicker skin and continue on here as a valuable member.
thanks.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
is it just me or...
Is everyone just a tad bit testy lately???
Welcome to Breaktime
Home of
The Aristocrats
I don't have an answer for that.
But, to call someone a hack (using non fine homebuilding tactics) for how they patch out (and it works forever) an old anchor hole is pure plain #### 'd goofyness.
But then again, just a dumb carpenter.
So Mr. new on my own, how would you repair such a problem...........with the anchor hole?A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Dimple
easy sand
JC
sand
paint
any other way is just so stupid that the perpetrator should be shot!!Welcome to Breaktime
Home of
The Aristocrats
At the risk of getting shot:
I often am able to tighten the moly screw more, which will compress the surface of the moly below the surface of the DW. Then back the screw out and patch.
BLAM!!!
Oh wait, that sounds like a good idea...
oh well...Welcome to Breaktime
Home of
The Aristocrats
"... any other way is just so stupid that the perpetrator should be shot!!"
SMILE(Y) when you say that, T!!!
:-)
(unless you're not kidding...)
GB
From now on I solve all my problems by:
Biatchslap
double tap to head
Invasion
Napalm
Plan B
not in any particular orderI don't feel safe in this world no more I don't want to die in a nuclear war I want to sail away to a distant shore and make like an ape man
glad you adopted Plan "B"...
how many would you like????Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Does anyone really need more than one???I don't feel safe in this world no more I don't want to die in a nuclear war I want to sail away to a distant shore and make like an ape man
some never learn...
some ignore examples..
some need a reminder...
sometimes one isn't enough...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
analog or digital???Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
There you go playing nice and I was feeling testy and looking forward to exchanging some good insults. Oh well. :)
By the way, where do you live that a good piffen only costs you $25??? I'm married and if you factored in all the costs involved with that, it cost me considerably more. :)
I spelled Piffin incorrectly. They refer to drywall screws, and if Piffen happens by here, he'll explain.
I also need to ask, why geebee??? when I was geared up for a fight I was going to ask if you were a dyslexic disco fan. :) my own refers to the fact that I sell and install office furniture, so you really wouldn't want to hire me as your contractor.
There is a character here at breaktime known as Piffin.He gets all bent out of shape when people suggest using sheetrock screws for anything other than sheetrock, with good reason. Sheetrock screws have a purpose in this world. They are designed and manufactured for that purpose and that purpose only. They fail -sometimes drasticly - when used for other purposes.This Piffin character has been known to go on and on and on about this subject, so pundits here have lovingly named SR screws after him, and by extension. the term sometimes is used to denote excessive verbiage on a subject or misused hardware in general...Since I haven't been part of this thread, you'll hae to decipher foir yourself how I got drawn here by reference. Good luch, and many happy moly patches
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I think that Mollie Bolt would be offended by your commnets.UNSEASONALWhere is the rain?
On such a day as this, the skies should weep
For those who fell, their futures cast aside;
Who left their wives to widowhood, bequeathed
their sons
No legacy but pride.What of the trees, whose faded leaves now dance,
So fickle in the unexpected sun?
Where only yesterday they clung with
sullen apathy,
Their summer glory done.Here is inconstancy - do we remember those
Who died in burning sands or jungle heat
With that same sorrow we accord
To Flanders Field or Passchendaele?
Somehow November's climate seems to meet
More closely, memory of their travail.And what does weather matter now,
To those whose lives were lost or torn apart?
Late autumn sun may warm my shoulders
where I stand:
The bitter thoughts of war have chilled my heart.by Mollie Bolt.
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
I was going to be a smart a$$ and say, "Put a neon tetra or a tin barb in the tank with the mollies..."!
The mollies I remember were plastic sleaves. Oh wait, it's all coming back to me now--you pound in a slitted tube with a flange that holds it against the drywall, then when you screw a screw into the tube, it pulls the tube open like an umbrella inside the wall. I have poked needle nosed pliers into the drywall to get ahold of the flange and either yanked them out, or crushed them outward enough to get a better hold with something like vice grips and yanked them out. If the flange breaks of, just push the rest back into the hole.