Replies

1. 
   BillHartmann | May 19, 2005 06:35am | #1

   There is no practical difference.

   If the GFCI receptacle is in an outside area where it is exposed to moisture some people think that the GFCI breaker will last a little longer.

   But if the GFCI trips it a lot handier to have to at the receptacle rather than having to go to the panel.

   Also don't try and save a few buck by using one device to for a bunch of receptacles in scatter locations. For example having a GFCI receptecle in the garge that also protects an outdoor receptacle and one in the basement.

   When the circuit trips no one knows where the GFCI and thinks that the circuit has failed. In case like that install a GFCI at each location.

1. 
   jhausch | May 19, 2005 01:48pm | #2

   Just went through this with a neighbor.

   All the garage recepts (except the one on a fridge), and all of the outdoor recepts were inop.  I told him it had to be a tripped GFCI, but we could not find it.

   I was just about ready to take the panel cover off when I moved a stack of boxes from below the panel in the closet.  There, 1 ft below the panel, was a tripped GFCI outlet - DOH!

1. 
   Paladin51 | May 19, 2005 04:13pm | #3

   Thanks....

2. 
   Paladin51 | May 19, 2005 04:14pm | #4

   Thanks.....

3. 
   rjw | May 19, 2005 04:20pm | #5

   I sometimes suspect some electricians take out their anger at the world in the way they route "extended" GFI's I am regularly searching for the MIA GFI receptacle.FWIW: In my area, at least: exterior outlets are most often protected by (i) a garage GFI, (ii) a basement GFI, or (iii) a first floor 1/2 bath GFI.Non-GFI bath receptacles are usually protected by another bath's GFI, but sometimes the garage, and sometimes a GFI in the master bedroom closet?!?In almost all cases, the tripped GFI will be behind stored items or hiding behind a snipe <G>

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   Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace

1. 
   BillHartmann | May 19, 2005 05:07pm | #6

   My house was built in 79. This was realatively early in the GFCI "wars".I remember the buider commenting that they would have a GFCI breaker for the inspection. (PS inspections where very loose and down by the FPD. Andway when I moved in there was none. However, that one circuit does serve 2 2nd story back to back bathrooms, a 1st floor 1/2 bath and 2 outside receptacles.

2. 
   timothale | May 20, 2005 03:41am | #10

   Check your gfci instructions for how many outlets can be down line.  I always had my crew label  the outlet cover for which breaker controls it.  one guy had a nice little label maker. in the  the  garage and outside they sometimes used a felt marker.

3. 
   timothale | May 20, 2005 03:44am | #11

   I think the new electrical code requires only bathrooms be on the bath circuit breaker, two baths can be on the same breaker, but no other outlets.   check with a lic electrician.

2. 
   DanH | May 19, 2005 05:38pm | #7

   In general, the receptacle is cheaper, protects just as well, and is handier to reset. However, in the case of downstream outlets off a GFCI receptacle, you can get in the situation (I've seen it here 2-3 times and in other forums more than that) where the GFCI receptacle is hidden somewhere and folks can't figure out why the outlets in the bathrooms and outside are not working. (Usually the GFCI receptacle is out in the garage or down in the basement, behind a cabinet or some such.)

   Also, as was stated, if the receptacle is going to be exposed to weather it's probably not a good place to put a GFCI receptacle, in terms of receptacle lifetime.

1. 
   timothale | May 20, 2005 03:49am | #12

   Check code, i think a label is required  at each location if a standart duplex receptical is used with either an upstream or gfci breaker

1. 
   DanH | May 20, 2005 05:04am | #13

   Perhaps a label saying it is GFCI protected, but not one saying where the reset is.

2. 
   Paladin51 | May 20, 2005 05:35am | #15

   Thanks for your time...

1. 
   handygman | May 20, 2005 07:45am | #16

   Is there an advantage in having more then one GFIC on the same circiut. Is there a disadvantage? 

1. 
   BillHartmann | May 20, 2005 02:51pm | #17

   The disadvantage to having multiple GFCI's is the cost.The advantage is that you know exactly where the fault is that caused the trip. And there is a less possible of false tripping due the accumulation of leakage currents and capacitances. It is very common to get questions where a GFCI that serves a string of receptacles keeps tripping for no apparent reason.

2. 
   DanH | May 20, 2005 03:43pm | #18

   It's best to avoid "daisy-chaining" them (having the output of one GFCI feed the input of another). This doesn't give you anything significant in the way of added protection, and it complicates testing -- when you press "test" on one the other is apt to trip.

1. 
   Dave45 | May 20, 2005 04:38pm | #19

   Another question regarding GFCI receptacles......

   I was doing a small job for a customer the other day and she asked about an electrical problem involving a GFCI receptacle.  They have a GFCI receptacle in the garage and it had tripped at some point.  They reset it and it worked but they lost two other receptacles - one in the garage and another in a bedroom adjoining the garage.  I explained how a GFCI receptacle protects everything downstream, but had no idea of why resetting it didn't restore the other receptacles.  I didn't have my electrical tools with me so I couldn't do any trouble shooting.  Since the house is still under warranty, I told her to turn it over to them and let them sort it out. 

   I'm still curious, however.  Anyone have any ideas about why resetting a GFCI wouldn't restore the downstream receptacles?

2. 
   BillHartmann | May 20, 2005 05:23pm | #20

   The question is what caused the GFCI to trip in the first place.If it was a true true fault to ground the current, before either the GFCI tripped, or the breaker tripped, might have been enough to damage a connection. Specially if it was some of those other receptacles had back-stab connections. Or that what caused the failure in those other receptacles caused the GFCI to trip.But just as likely it was two independant problems.

3. 
   DanH | May 20, 2005 07:23pm | #21

   Another possibility is daisy-chained GFCIs.

4. 
   Dave45 | May 20, 2005 07:31pm | #22

   Connection damage sounds like a good possibility.  Most of these houses use backstabbed receptacle connections and they're always a good suspect. - lol

   Maybe I'm just lucky, but I've used the backstabs for years and never had a problem.  The one problem I've had with a backstabbed receptacle (in my own home) was the last receptacle installed by the builder.  I had replaced all the others over the years but this one was hidden behind my wife's humongeous dresser.  She had her hair dryer on the "molten lava" setting one day and blew the breaker.  When I reset it, our bathroom didn't power up and I had to move that %#!# dresser.  That last builders receptacle was blown out and I finally replaced it.

5. 
   CapnMac | May 20, 2005 10:22pm | #23

   why resetting a GFCI wouldn't restore the downstream

   Unless the next one was another GFCI (the daisy chain effect noted above).

   Only other thing that comes to mind would be a faulty reset.  Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

6. 
   Dave45 | May 20, 2005 10:55pm | #24

   Could well be a daisey chain or a faulty GFCI.  Like I said earlier, though, I told the HO to run it thru their home warranty.  It's someone else's problem. - lol

7. 
   handygman | Jun 02, 2005 06:45am | #27

   Thanks DanH. I only did it because the HO "felt" safer. Everybody, thanks for your input. I've learned a lot about GFI's.

3. 
   JohnSprung | May 19, 2005 09:34pm | #8

   My preference is standard breakers and GFCI receptacles, with an absolute policy that GFCI receptacles only feed downstream receptacles in the same room.  If a plug quits on you, step one is to find and push the button in the room with you.  If that's not it, then you walk to the panel.

    

   -- J.S.

    

4. 
   GRVDOG | May 20, 2005 03:32am | #9

   I can't say with absoultion that one is more safe than the other, but I can say with absolution that the next weekend morning that you decide to "sleep in" and the wife is wrapped in a towel drying her hair, who do you think is going to be the lucky candidate to go way out to the breaker panel to reset the circut? Put the GFCI in the bathroom so she can reset it herself.

5. 
   BryanSayer | May 20, 2005 05:20am | #14

   Personally, I like breakers better for two reasons. One is that there is only ONE place to go to check. No risk of some hidden outlet confusing things. The second reason is apperance, I don't like how the recepticals look.

   The quality of the receptacles can vary too.

6. 
   JTC1 | May 20, 2005 11:46pm | #25

   As you have already found out, this is large a matter of personal preference.

   Since I was basically taught to wire via Coast Guard reulations pertaining to boats I was working on -- I like very simple circuits -- not a whole lot of branches going here and there.  I vote for GFCI breakers and standard receptacles.  GFCI breakers cost more but seem to last for me, I have not had great luck with GFCI receptacles -- get a few years out of them and they go bad -- probably just my luck.

   My main panel and sub panel contain a total of 7 of these; 1 for the garage + outdoor outlet + garage attic; 1 each for 3 bathrooms; 2 for the kitchen; 1 for the basement; 1 for 2 additional outdoor outlets.  Of course no builder would want to give you this, when I changed the house service I did a conisderable amount of re-routing and breaking of circuit loads.  All my junction boxes are accessible and labeled with their function and breaker number, I also marked the back of all cover plates as to which breaker in which panel will "kill" that box.  Great info to have, but again - no builder could afford to do it.  However, I do it on any modifications I make as a course of remodeling for clients.

   Jim

   Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.

1. 
   Paladin51 | May 20, 2005 11:52pm | #26

   Thanks....