I did a search… but came up empty. Here’s what I’ve got:
Geust bathroom with shower. Fiberglass tub/stall combo against exterior wall. Ceiling vent installed. New construction < 5 years old.
Client would like a window in space above the shower stall.
I suggested glass block and the client came back, and decided that would be superb. We agreed on a price, etc.
I’ve never done one of these in an exterior wall with excessive moisture/condensation in the picture. Although the room has a fan, I’m a big believer in doing the job right the first time. The only callbacks I like to take are the ones that generate paying work if you know what I mean…
What materials, and/or techniques would you all suggest to make sure the exterior and interior moisture is handled properly? More specifically, how would you layer the materials, what would you border the glass block with where it meets the wall, etc.
Trying to avoid getting wet in Seattle.
Best,
Sam Barrett
Replies
If the interior window meets tile...
I have a vinyl window in (not above) my shower with the tile going right up to it and it's as water proof as anything. What I did was tiled right up to it then, before grouting, I caulked all the inside joints with silicone. Then I grouted. I see no reason this shouldn't apply to glass block. As for the exterior, treat it as you would any window. Sill pitched to shed water, caulked (urethane caulk is paintable), primed and painted.
~ WebTrooper ~
"But don't take my word for it. I was wrong once and it could happen again!"
Thanks web trooper.
Just to clarify, the fiberglass tub meets gypsum wallboard. The wallboard is probably going to get trashed and the sill will run right up to the tub - unless of course someone pipes up and tells me that's not such a hot idea.
Originally the owner wanted a small, private window to "look out of" while in the shower (tall people!). I had to explain to him that because of temperature differentials between air and glass that succinctly "That's not gonna work." unless he decided to throw an un-real amount of moolah in for a heated window, which he politely declined.
So privacy and simplicity won the day - and the bid.
As I've been thinking about the task, I'm going to have to come up with something other than wood for the sill and frame to prevent moisture rot. Ideas?
-Sam B.
Sam-
Stupid question- how did you give the client a price (which they agreed to), if you don't know how you're going to build it, and therefore how long it'll take, and what the materials will cost?????
Bob
Sounds like an interesting little project. Aside from Joe's concerns about framing for a header (which you may not need) and wires and pipes hidden in the wall, I think that your biggest problem may be how to handle the condensation dripping off the glass blocks. The outside could be handled like a conventional window, no problem.
I think I would treat the entire area above the shower as one tiled surface with the glass blocks flush with the tiles. This way any moisture on this surface would drain into the shower. Good luck whatever you decide to do. As for price, it is usually best to give a price which realistically reflects a worst case scenario and then give the customer money back when the job is satisfactorily completed. Only pleasant surprises.
Trying to avoid getting wet in Seattle.
Is this exterior wall on a gable end or first floor or second with a load above that requires a header?
Just thinking about the project and the time it will take you to prep this wall for the glass block. How do you know what's behind the wall such as wires, duct work, plumbing pipes. There could be alot of work involved for an opening and like you said you want to avoid getting wet.
Joe Carola
FWIW, I'm seeing more and more of these in NW Ohio (with some pretty cold temps in the winter, and, so far, I haven't seen condensation problems.
I'd follow manufacturer's instructions and specs pretty closely
See, e,g, http://www.pittsburghcorning.com/homeowners/installinstr.asp
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Thanks,
~ WebTrooper ~
"But don't take my word for it. I was wrong once and it could happen again!"
Ask ElCid what he did...
http://kinsembuilders.com/clepperbath006.html
http://kinsembuilders.com/clepperbathtub.html
Live, Love, Forgive and Forget
quittintime
Thanks for the responses everyone.
More details as requested:
Load: it's on a 2nd story, under roof eve, exterior wall. Yes there is some load. Will I put a header board in? Probably not. The block is pretty sturdy stuff and the atic area is not finished, nor will it ever be - so there's no chance of it being converted and turned into living space where the load levels would rise to the point where a full blown structural build up would be required. There isn't an easy way to get in there and put in proper queen studs without tearing the place appart completely. It's 2x6 construction all the way up as it is (this thing is Sturdy).
Gabled?: Nope. It's under an eve.
What's behind it?: Looking at the services sticking out of the roof, and thinking logically where the plumbing should run, etc. I shouldn't have any problems of that sort. For good measure I've put a call into the homebuilder to ask if I can take a look at the plans to make sure. Assuming of course they followed the plans...
Bob Walker: The link you provided only shows detail for an interior glass block wall if I'm not mistaken. However, your suggestion to contact the manufacturer is a good one, and I will attempt to reach out to them to see what they reccomend for exterior installations as well. Hopefully they don't think it beyond the scope of their product to offer such advise.
Luka: Elcid's installation is a tub, not a shower. Condensation level is not the same at all for that sort of configuration. Thanks for the link anyways!
Cost/Price/Bid question: Here's what I did. I gave the guy 2 quotes actually.
One quote if I order the block, and build it in myself. I figured time for the demolition, scaffold build up and tear down, framing, window construction, finish work, and clean-up. Counted materials for the glass, grout, framing, etc. Tacked on an additional 10% for suprises. With the final number set, I forgot about the whole job for a day or two and then came back and asked myself "Would I pay someone else to do this in my home for that price?". I decided I would.
The second quote I did much the same thing except I changed the approach: What if I bought a custom, pre-built glass block window which I hung backwards (exterior facing inside toward the shower stall), and a second, custom exterior window with no dividers, and hung it facing the exterior - just like a normal window. That would take care of all the moisture issues, increase the insulation value of the job over-all, and make for a very, very fast project to boot. However, the number wasn't very pretty in the end because of the 2 custom windows. Essentially I would give up much of my profit to fit the windows into the budget.
So the customer went with the former instead of the latter. I told myself I could probably "figure it out", but now I have to come up with a way to make the frame and the sill moisture proof. Any more ideas?????
Best,
Sam B.
Load: it's on a 2nd story, under roof eve, exterior wall. Yes there is some load. Will I put a header board in? Probably not. The block is pretty sturdy stuff
I don't know much about glass block but your saying that this is under a roof eve, so therefore you are carrying a ceiling and rafter/roof load and you need a header no matter what.
So are you saying that glass bock replaces a header and can carry a ceiling and roof load?
How wide is the opening?
Joe Carola
Glass block is non-load bearing. You need to support the structure with a header. In addition, you need to allow for expansion around the perimeter of the block window. The glass block companies will sell you the closed cell foam expansion joint material. It is about 3/16" thick and a little less wide than the glass blocks. Use urethane caulk over the expansion joint-- it is strong, flexible and paintable. I have even used urethane caulk to set smaller windows.
One last thing -- you can get glass block windows made to size. They are a little heavy but you just set them into your opening. They put them together at the factory much cheaper than you can do it on the job. Often they come with steel reinforcing rods embedded in the mortar, and they are banded around the perimter. See below:
http://www.e-glassblock.com/id10.htm
Call your local glass block companies and they will tell you what you need to do.
Billy
Glass block is non-load bearing. You need to support the structure with a header
Billy,
Thanks because that's what I figured and my point to Sambo when he said this, Load: it's on a 2nd story, under roof eve, exterior wall. Yes there is some load. Will I put a header board in? Probably not. The block is pretty sturdy stuff was thast was that he has to put a header on because it's a load bearing wall.
If he knows that the glass block can't handle a load and he's not going to put a header in which everyone knows that when you bid a job that requires cutting a whole in a load bearing wall to install a window , door, or glass block you have to put a header in PERIOD unless the glass block is only 14-1/2" wide going in between two studs then he has no clue as to what he's doing.
Joe Carola
I saw in HD a window with frame made from glass block, so you do it just like a window opening
The best employee you can have but you wouldn't want him as a neighbor " He the shifty type"
Here's more from one of the manufacturers.
Billy
http://www.pittsburghcorning.com/homeowners/faq1.asp
Is glass block load-bearing?Glass Block is a non-load bearing material. Provisions (i.e., lintels) at the head should be provided to accommodate the support of loads above the glass block panel (similar to doors and windows).
Yes, he's in trouble if he skips the header. Here's more detail on the installation:
http://www.pittsburghcorning.com/includes/specs/gb248.pdf
As for the HD comment, you can get pre-made panels of thin block with nailing flanges. That doesn't make them any more load bearing than regular windows.
http://www.e-glassblock.com/id9.htm
Billy
Me I would fab. it from corian. Slope the sill as usual but on both the inside and out. should be a piece o cake. I am sure someone will dis agree..But I am sure it will work.
edit. ya need the header..unless you headoff the load up top that is..transfer to either side rafter..but thats messy
Edited 12/14/2003 7:49:57 PM ET by SPHERE
Edited 12/14/2003 7:53:17 PM ET by SPHERE
I agree -- Corian works very well and it's foolproof compared with waterproofing tile around a shower window.
Billy
Glass block is definitely not load bearing. Put one under a 2x12 and crush it with the wheel of your truck if you're not sure. Then try the same thing with a brick or con block.
I've done one large glass block window in a full tile shower. Photo is here:
http://davidmeiland.com/architecture/AC01.html
The glass block is flush to the face of the tile--the interior surface is monolithic with nowhere for water to sit. The inside of the framing was entirely protected from head to toe with 6 mil poly behind the backer board, and a careful application of bituthene (ripped down to about 12") connecting the interior waterproofing to the exterior tyvek. Any water that gets around the edges of the block is going to go down the outside face of one of those materials. I wrapped both the poly and tyvek into the opening and the bituthene is on top of that.
After doing all of the waterproofing, I installed a 2x8 redwood sill (the manufactured type that's easy to find in northern Cal) and set the block on that. It's ripped so that it does not interfere with the tile on the inside, and provides a slope and overhang on the outside. The block and tile are carefully laid out so that the 3/16" gap all around the block coincides with the tile grout joints. When setting the tile I used a Schluter termination strip with a small radius on it to reflect the radius on the glass block edges. I caulked that joint with grout caulk. Weak points are a) the caulk, which is a maintenance item, b) the fastener holes from the redwood sill and from the glass block anchors into the sides of the opening.
To the original poster--it does not sound to me like you're ready to do this project, unless perhaps you're a tile contractor and not familiar with the carpentry, in which case you need a good carpenter or contractor to correctly handle the hole you need to cut. If you do this wrong you will be creating either a) a situation where rot will start happening almost within days of you leaving the job and/or b) an unsafe structural situation. Then one of us gets to come back in a few years, fix the mistake, and show the owner what you did wrong.