I’m going to be building a gate for my neighbor, but with all the glues on the market that seem to do the same thing, I’m wondering if the fine folks here can point me the right way.
I’ll be laminating up a redwood picture frame, sticking copper in between. For the laminations, which will be 3 lengths of 3/4″, what is best? I’ve seen Titebond III claim waterproof and the best wood glue ever. http://www.titebond.com/IntroPageTB.ASP?UserType=1&ProdSel=ProdSelectorIntroTB.asp
Also Gorilla Glue or like polyurethane glue claim to be waterproof and incredibly strong. (Aren’t pretty much all glues stronger than the wood?)
And then there is epoxy, which I’m not very familiar with and can’t find in decent quantities locally, but should last longer than the wood. I’m figuring to use epoxy at any copper to wood connection.
Any thoughts? Gorilla Glue claims to offer a bit more open time than the Titebond. Thanks in advance.
Replies
Marine supply stores (as in boating) often sell epoxy resin and hardener in pint and gallon containers. Very pricey, though.
Allen
We use Guerilla Glue-actually Emler's version of it for 95% everything we glue. It is super strong, sticks to everything and have never had a failure. Just glued up some laminated railings for a spiral staircase out of CVG cedar. 10 layers of laminations, plenty of open time, barely sprung after being unclamped, easy sanding, no problems with the polyurethane finish.
http://tours.tourfactory.com/tours/minitour.asp?t=335835&s=25&sc=3145566
Bruce
Don't use Titebond 3- I've had hit and miss luck with it, and heard so-so things about it from others. Bottom line, it's not really a glue for really exterior projects.
Gorilla glue works great, so does epoxy- Smith and Co. and West System are two good epoxy mfgrs.
zak
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
I live and work on a barrier island so our environment here is pretty rough. I use the Gorilla glue (or its copy) for all of my exterior work. I carry a spray bottle of water as instructions say best adhesion occurs when the surfaces are moist. One thing to watch for is that the glue expands and bubbles as it cures. Do not over apply. It is a mess to clean up. You say you are using redwood....I use it a lot on cedar and it is a bear to clean if I use too much.
Brian....Bayview Renovations
I'm not that sold yet on titebond III
When you say picture frame - do I understand that you are assembling with mitred corners?
IMO, that is the weakest type of joint for this sort of thing. It relies oon endgain glue joints. You need to insert dowels or splines to provide some surface area for the glue to hold onto.
For lineal laminations, I would use gorilla on this or possibly Titebond II
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Haven't quite decided on my connections yet, if I'll use miters with several biscuits or splines, or do a bridle joint.Sounds like I'll be using Gorilla or the Elmer's.Edit: A reason I had for thinking miters was to avoid exposing end grain to the elements and eyesight. Probably not crucial, I just figured the wood could absorb more water with end grain exposed.Edit2: Aside from sinking allthread into a foundation for a hold down, what is the proper use for epoxy? Given all that Gorilla-type glues claim they do, when do you jump from poly to epoxy?
Edited 5/9/2007 10:50 am by SBerruezo
well, there are hundreds of different epoxies for different uses. But generally6 when you want a foolproof, waterproof glue up. very common here because of baot building. A wooden boat takes a lot harder strees on joints than any gate ever will.I also use it when laminating curved railings, treads, and gate parts
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Use epoxies for join strength, vibration tolerance, harder surface, disparate materials, hard-to-bond materials, gap-filling, injection, ...
BTW, another adhesive for your application might be resincore
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I would also go with a Poly Glue such as Gorilla. I have used it for exterior gates before and will use it again. A few items to note:
It needs moisture to cure -- Just wipe the ajoining parts with a damp rag.
It will foam as it cures -- Expect to clean the joints with a sharp chisle after it cures.
Due to the foaming, be carefull when you go to finish the gate. Make sure you sand off all the excess glue if you are seeking a "furnature quality" finish.
Due to the foaming, it will fill small gaps - a plus.
Regarding thin poly glue (Gorilla and Sumo) filling gaps: I have always been under the impression that the foam that would fill a gap is in general very weak.Not trying to dispute you, thats just what I've understood.I actually like to use PL Premium Polyurethane Construction Adhesive on outdoor work. In my opinion it has excellent gap-filling abilities.
Gorilla glue and the like can not fill gaps, much as I'd like it to. I've used it a fair amount, but the reason for posting was my ignorance of epoxies and the abundance of products that claim to do the same thing.
"I'll be laminating up a redwood picture frame, sticking copper in between."
COPPER.
I doubt that the tight bond would stick to it.
I think that the epoxy will if, specially if yuo rought the surface. It will form a mechanical bond. Where as PVA glues need to be "abosrbed" into the wood surface.
Not sure about poly glue. Need to try some tests.
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
For redwood my favorite is still resorcinol. It's expensive and you have to mix it, but it bonds very well with redwood. It does leave a dark glue line, but none of the foaming problems of poly, and it seems to match the expansion characteristics of redwood better than epoxy.
If I'm just doing "hack work", though (eg, gluing back together a broken redwood mailbox post), I generally use poly (Gorilla).
I'll see if I can find some, but I'm guessing if I can't find epoxy around here, resorcinol is probably not to be found either. Where are you able to get it?
My local Ace carries it ... on a good day.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
If you are putting a copper sheet between wood I would be concerned about bonding and eventual delamination. Thermal expansion/contraction differences between the two materials will be significant.
One thing I've seen that you could use. Make holes in the copper so the glue can form a plug that would go from wood to glue to wood at that point.
So take a drill to the copper sheet and put as many holes in it as you think it will need. I would make sure the perimeter had a consistent row of holes and then fill in the field.
The glue you use should have excellent gap filling capabilities because of this.
Ruffing up the surface couldn't hurt either.
I'm still not clear what you are doing. Are you putting a copper panel in the frame?
If so. Maybe it should float or be able to move in the frame.
My take was that he was building a wood frame and installing copper pipe or some such for lattice work.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, the HO has a bunch of 3/4" copper left over from a previous bathroom remodel. For whatever reason, they didn't return it, and it now has a nice patina on it they would like to admire. Reason 2 was to be able to keep an eye on the kids playing on the other side of the gate, so a more open design than a sheet is necessary (although I really like the idea).
Edited 5/10/2007 9:43 pm by SBerruezo
I built this arbor five years ago, and used Go-Rilla glue with biscuits to make up the arches. It's weathered to a dark gray now, but the glue joints are just as good as they were the day I pulled them out of the clamps.
I would be careful about getting it on your copper, however. It might leave a weird mark or stain.
Edited 5/9/2007 11:13 pm by Dave45