I’d like to laminate some timbers for my place… severely curved stuff that can only be done with built up timbers…
However I don’t know what kind of glue to use.
I plan on gluing up 1/2 thick planks that are fresh green so they can bend without breaking.. I’d like the glue line to be as invisable as possible but some of the timbers will need to be exposed to outside weather..
any suggestions.. brands and source please..
From building boxes and fitting face frames to installing doors and drawers, these techniques could be used for lots of cabinet projects.
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Replies
Back when I used to subscribe to Fine Woodworking, I seem to remember they used carpenter's glue.
Why not post your question there?
Quality repairs for your home.
Aaron the Handyman
Vancouver, Canada
Yes, ordinary yellow aliphatic resin woodworking glue should be fine. Glue some test pieces and break them after the glue has set. You'll see that it's the wood rather than the glue that fails. So you don't need any stronger glue than that.
-- J.S.
Strenght of the glue is not the only requirement for a glue.
First he gluing "green" wood. Depending on how green green is the joint might not even hold it's own weight.
And he talks about glueing up "timbers", which imply structural to me.
PVA will creep under load.
It's amazing how much I get here.
My customer is having me build a new deck usnig Angeleum Pedra (Brazilian Mahogany look-a-like). Since it comes in 5/4 x 6 (nominal), and he wants a glued up handrail ie: 2"x5½" final, beveled. I have to use gorilla glue, right?Quality repairs for your home.
Aaron the HandymanVancouver, Canada
Nope. I'd recommend West System epoxy with pre-wiping with lacquer thinner or acetone to eliminate some oiliness. Been there done that, works great. Need some help? I'm just around the corner. Cheers,Phil.If it is to be.... 'twil be done by me.
Hey, guy! Back from your honeymoon already?
Where can I get the glue?
Love to finally meet you. The site is over just off Dunbar St., above 4th Ave. Let me know when, I don't work Saturdays.
Pedra (Windsor Plywood) is not really oily and I am trying to get some of the other sizes out of Manitoba, but my customer wants specials.
Guess I'll need a new table saw, too.Quality repairs for your home.
Aaron the HandymanVancouver, Canada
gorillia glue would be one of my last choices for curved lams. use the epoxy. Porbabvly need the sloiw cure catalyst so you have time to handle, place, and clamp it all up. Otherwise, you'll be runnig around like a flock of chickens after the fox ran into the henhouse!.
Excellence is its own reward!
Actually, the boards are straight and will not be curved. It's just that for the handrails he wants a thicker board. Philter and I have been speaking since he lives 20 minutes drive from me and he suggested a different epoxy than I use.
Have a nice weekend. By the way, is your wife better?Quality repairs for your home.
Aaron the HandymanVancouver, Canada
I little more information seems to be called for.. What I want are timbers that are about 9 inches thick by 6 inches wide and about 22 feet long..
The wood is probably gonna be black walnut (although I haven't absolutely ruled out cherry) There is little chance that I'll be able to find pieces that long free of knots or defects, so I'll have to accept whatever I can get.. Old growth Doug fir may grow staight enough to provide 20 feet+ of straight grained flawless wood but Black walnut like that could be a lifetimes work..
the radius will probably be around six feet.. maybe 7 (since I haven't scaled anything yet) I'll need to make at least 10 of these plus two with a much larger radius. I Have a twenty foot long piece of 1/2 inch thick by six inch wide that is fairly dry w/ about a 15% moisture and it started cracking before I got it anywhere near that radius (I mean it was probably about a 20 foot radius or more)
I suppose that I could get the planks green and wrap them in straps and let them air dry (can you imagine what a kiln would charge to dry these? )
For a radius that tight - can you imagine setting white oak with such a curve?
The old shipbuilders used knees and keel stems made from the heels and stumpage of the trees where the trunk bends down into a flank root. They hacked away with an adze to shape it square but the curve was built in.
You can get pretty good with an adze after a day or two if your forearms are up to it - and the girls here like a nice forearm, or so I hear.
;).
Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin,
I wouldn't try white oak. but I've handled Black walnut green boards right off the mill and believe that I could bend them that tight. That's why the need for green.. I don't believe that I could steam a board once it's dried to bend as tight as green will. (gut feeling and no actual experiance doing it).
This might be one of those, "there's no acceptable solution problems". Like a varnish for Black walnut used Outside that I asked about two years ago..
I didn't mean to suggest that you try white oak but to use it as an example. Any way you could harvest green knees from stumpage of walnut to shape yourself?.
Excellence is its own reward!
If I did, would it be any better then bending green wood? Actually the work involved scares me and I don't scare easily (if you've seen my house you'd understand)
Were you to run across some Black Walnut stumps and roots, you'd probably make enough $$$ selling the root wood to build a shop and a hydraulic, adjustable, numerically controlled laminating press to do any kind of laminations you want.
Root wood is usually quite stable with very little ingrown stress. In the case of BW and a few other species, it is often figured and, as of a few years ago at least, was sought after for making figured fore-pieces for custom made shotguns.
One of my neighbors in the early 70's had an old Black Walnut in front of his house that had to be taken out for a road widening project. He had the tree cut up for a big stash of hobby lumber and sold the root wad for over $30K to Winchester Arms. They had a crew come out, carefully dig it out under the watchful eye of a gunstock maker, power washed it, cut it up like they were doing brain surgery and hauled it away.
Ships knees, gammon pieces and any number of curved wooden ship parts, not to mention breast hooks and stems for small boats have traditionally been cut out of the underground portion of trees, as Pif points out. Most any decent wood will do...Hackmatack (Tamarack) was commonly used Down East and Doug Fir here in the PNW. Local photos from the 19th century show barges stacked with roughed out knees heading down river to the local shipyards.
There's been a lot of mention of the resorcinol glues in this thread, and they are very good for the reasons mentioned. And I have used them a lot in the past with boatbuilding. However, the resorcinols I'm familiar with require very dry wood (preferably kiln-dried) to work to their potential.
That would do if I were to just need four or six feet of the timber. I need twentytwo feet.. In addition the root isn't really gonna be wide enough or thick enough..
You've got my curiosity up for why in the world would you kneed a twenty two foot length at a radius of six feet in a structural timber? That's about a fifth of a rather large circle.
You are a crazy wacko, man!
;).
Excellence is its own reward!
Maybe the Wacko has going Twirling Dervish on us.... :-)
I have one room left to design. That is gonna be my piece' de resistance' It's a bow that turns into a cone with flying hammer beams.
Now the whole length of the beam isn't gonna be bent into that radius but I'll need to bend both ends to that radius with a more gradual radius thru out it's length.. Oh,..... and I'll need ten of them..
Yes I have referred to myself as wacko so it is entirely proper for you to refer to me as severely wacko.. to the extreme!
Now I suppose I could cut everything out with a bandsaw... If I could find some 6 foot diameter black walnut trees... twenty two feet long... em',.... ten of them please.. ?!!!!?
" If I could find some 6 foot diameter black walnut trees... twenty two feet long.."
Na, you need 12 ft ones.
But how about making you own?
These are structural right?
Lets say you need 6x6's. Take some 2x10's. (I have not worked any of this out and just using numbers for examples). Cut them and "joint" them to form the rough shape of the arch that you can then band saw out. But these joints won't have that much strenght.
Then make two more layers using the same method, but so that joints are not at the same place and then laminate them together.
That is somewhat the approach I'd planned on taking. except I was going to take some 1/2 inch thick green boards and bend them to the form required and then glue 'em together..
The trouble is finding a glue that will work with green wood..
hence we go back to my orginal post..
Frenchy, just how big of a hurry are you in?
Overbend 'em wet and let them dry in the form with 1/8" stickers 'tween 'em. Should be dry in a couple weeks, and be close enough for gluing.
Send me a bunch of come-alongs and a template and I will start bending some live trees... should be dry in a couple years.
SamTSleepless in Columbia. Diurnal rhythm? What songs did they do?
Sam, that's exactly what I believe will be the only solution.. ...that or find trees shaped to my specifications by nature..
The only draw back with that program is that I'll need to make a whole bunch of bending forms.. Since I'll need ten of these Of course I might be able to stack up enough layers in one form to make one beam.. but then if I have everything clamped together in a form things won't try quickly.
I suppose I could put sticker in between each plank and alternate radiuses to meet the differant radius from the inside of the curve to the outside.. That would only require 20 forms strong enough to withstand the bending force of a 6x9" timber.
I wonder how many clamps that will require to complete.. let's see, If I use one clamp every 4 inches (which may be pushing things since I'm bending to such a tight radius) that will call for 1320 clamps.. OOps I better do top and bottom, so that means I'll need 2680 clamps..
Um,,,.... can I borrow some clamps for a while?
Frenchy,
This idea may not be as crazy as it sounds. If you put the green wood into the forms, with stickers, and let them dry, and then glue, you'll have a much better end product. And while you're at it, you could probably use the dehumidifier process we discussed in the thread on Knots to help it out.
Here's how you could solve the "clamp" problem. Build a form that has an inner portionthat is very rigid and is high enough so that you can get multiple boards into the form (doing several beams within one form). You should be able to use cauls with threaded rods on both ends as clamps, or you could build a second form which uses threaded rods. Pull all of this together (don't forget the stickers), and let the wood dry. If you use the dehumidifier it should go quickly, since the wood will be half inch (and perhaps less, if you run that through the planer first). I'm not sure if the wood will shrink with the grain, but you might have to loosen the rods and re-tighten several times.
In terms of glue, my thought would be epoxy but I've got a sneaking suspicion that the time to glue up and clamp 18 boards for each beam will take long enough so that you've got a time problem ... no matter what the glue. But this is going indoors, right? I think you're talking about having lots of people around helping with the glue-up. If you were close to Los Angeles I'd come for the weekend in a heartbeat.
>> Edited to add one more thought. You could also resaw the green boards, and then plane them, so that you had 1/4 inch thick stock. I'd think you could bend those when dry, but if not they'd surely be easire to been when green. If you number them and put them back together the glue line will be hardly noticeable ... the lumber would look very close to full dimension (full as to the original boards, that is).
John
Edited 7/14/2003 6:51:32 PM ET by johnhardy
Here's a resource....U.S Forest Products Laboratory wood engineering handbook....available for download. http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/FPLGTR/fplgtr113/fplgtr113.htm
I persoanlly wouldn't want to do a big glue-up with polyurethane, and I'm kind of a doubter about it's structural strength. It does hold up to weather well though,( and it does tolerate moisture in wood well); I had my students glue up blocks with different types of tests, and we submerged them in water for a while to test them.
resorcinol would be the traditional glue for this application, and it's the one i would recomend; urea resin would work, but it's classed as only moderately durable under damp conditions (can't go back and check, but some of this is going outside right?). I like epoxy a lot, but I don't think I use it here. it is great for filling gaps though.
Don't use white or yellow glues, because of the creep mentioned already, and if any of these beams are outside, water will break them down....even the Type II modified stuff.
It would be better if the timbers were air-dry (at least below 19% m.c; less than 12% would be better); depends where they are now. Figure a year per inch of thickness to airdry, and really it should be more for thick stuff. Walnut's a slow dryer anyway. cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, N.S
Hi Adrian,
I'm with you on the resorcinol. I've experience Titebond II failure with bent laminated windows, even well sheltered ones. No more.
My experience is that resorcinol works fine at the 15% mc of my air dried lumber. Hoadley (Understanding Wood), however, fully debunked that 1 year/inch. His chart shows 70-200 days for black walnut, northern white oak 80-250 (4/4 to 20%). The lower numbers are for spring/summer. The higher numbers are for lumber stacked during fall/winter. My experience concurs.
A moisture meter is the best way to know for certain what to expect.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
> I've experience Titebond II failure with bent laminated windows, even well sheltered ones. No more.
That's bad news -- I've used Titebond II for dutchmen in my windows. Is it adequate for that kind of thing, or do I have trouble in my future? (OK, of course I have trouble in my future -- but do I have trouble coming with those window dutchmen?)
-- J.S.
Hi John,
LOL... Ummm, dutchmen? The only kind I know is a wedge used to hide the fault in a poorly made joint. Don't use 'em myself. Maybe you mean something else.
I didn't have catastrophic failure with the laminations, just some separation. Windows are still in service, but I'm not happy. Will they get worse after 8 years of service? I sure hope not. Keeping in mind I was talking about bent laminations that have considerable internal stresses, relying on the glue to subdue. Resorcinol works and has a LOT less springback, if a PITA to measure and mix.
Titebond has worked fine for me for interior laminations. I'm not convinced Titebond II is all they claim it to be. Not a part of my current, or future, plan.
If your dutchmen aren't under much pressure, probably no problem. PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
I thought I remember something about using a tarp and a heater to create a temporary kiln, but can't find anything about that. Was thinking of doing something along those lines with an unvented propane heater, but I just happened across an article discussing how much moisture an unvented propane heater puts out. Sounded like a poor choice for a kiln.
Can I hijack enough of this thread to get some ideas on temporary kilns? (There is a good article on the Internet about do-it-yourself solar kilns but I am too lazy this evening to chase it down again...)
Hi Casey,
This is what I used:
http://wood.oregonstate.edu/solarkiln/plans.htm
Unfortunately I have yet to finish it (part of a large building). Based on my experience with air drying, makes perfect sense.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Frenchy
I would think that the polyurethanes would work. They are recommeded for use with PT lumber. But that is a different "wetness" than green.
But the method that I was talking about can be done with dry lumber.
I could think of the term at the time, but it is segmented arc's.
Let us know about this crazy beam bending thing. It sounds interesting, though way beyound anything I'd know about. Remember I told you about that overpass right by Mt. Rushmore, it is constructed with bent laminated beams. They were dark, but that could have been stain rather then dark wood. Maybe you could talk to the South Dakota roads department and see if you could find the name of the company that built that. They know how to do what you're talking about, though not nearly as tight of bends, but they may be some help.
Here's an outfit that builds bridges out of such things. http://www.hunterbond.co.nz/products.html Maybe, they'd be willing to answer a couple questions for you. Or send you the right direction anyway. You may also check with some boat builders. They have to make bent beams for boat hulls quite often. Perhaps research how old time sailing ships were built. You may be attempting to recreate a common ship building problem.
Here, found a home boat building site that mentions laminating http://www.glen-l.com/weblettr/webletters-4/webletter34.html#notebook
OR go to their home page. http://www.glen-l.com/
Your idea interests me, but no time to really research it out. I'd search on boatbuilding. Did a quick hit on google, and found everything from home boat building to schools to learn how. You may need to ask this same question on some of the sites of boat builders. Seems to me that it's a common problem in wooden ship construction. Just usually on a smaller scale.
I can't even imagine what you're doing but ever think about renting a hot pressure washer and firing it on the hot side such that you get essesntially saturated steam and bending your planks around a form that is close to what you eventually want ? And then glue and clamp from there.
What glue is used for pianos ? I realize they are thinner "planks" but that's a pretty tight radius on those big grand pianos.
ES
Thank you for that suggestion, however having worked with both steamed wood and fresh green wood I believe that fresh green is more limber and capable of bending.
I don't know that for a fact, nor can I find anything that will give me data to support my contention.. Never-the-less I believe it, so that's where I'm going.. Hopefully someone will quote me a source to either refute my contention or support it and then based on that I'll modify how I intend to achieve my goal..
regarding the steamed wood used in Pianos etc..
They start with extremely thin sheets of wood which by their very nature are plyable and then steam them into a form. I need to work with what I can obtain locally. Cost is a consideration here. The sawmill is not able to provide me with consistant slabs of wood that are over 20 feet long less than 1/2 inch thick.. while I can run everything thru my planer to reduce the thickness somewhat, I'd like to have the grain somewhat aligned, sort of book matched if you will. The ideal would be to steam the whole beam but I know of no chart that will let me steam anything to the radius I need to achieve or anything close to it..
It is a compromise to cut them into 1/2 inch boards and bend and glue.. the further I get from the ideal of a solid beam the less the look I want to achieve will be possible..
Thanks, She's better than she knows..
Excellence is its own reward!
For green wood, you'll probably need to use a polyurethane (which is water reactive), like Gorilla Glue or one of the less expensive identical variations.
I did a large sailboat stem once with Yew wood planks, but I steamed them and bent them into a jig with a little "overcurve." When they'd cooled and surface dryed after a few days, I set them in a jig of the correct curve and let them air dry for about 6 mo. then glued them up with System 3 epoxy. That boat stem is still in good shape after about 20 years.
Two thoughts that come to mind are epoxy, like West System, or a urea resin glue, like Unibond 800. There are others, but the key is to use something rigid that's not going to creep. The epoxy will be good outside for sure, the Unibond should be, but definitely verify that first. Check out the following for more info.
http://www.westsystem.com/
http://www.vacupress.com/veneerglue.htm
number of years ago FHB had an article about someone gluing up timbers for a bridge.
can't remember when etc.
maybe someone with the CD can find it.
bobl Volo Non Voleo
Just by chance, I was looking at an old woodworking magazine last night. There was a short article about different glues for laminating. They recommended a specific glue I'd never heard of for outside laminations (only downside is it dries a dark brown color.
Sorry, forgot to bring the magazine in to work with me, so can't post the name, as I've forgotten it. If I don't remember tommorrow, remind me and I'll get the name for you.
Billy
Hi Billy,
Might that be resorcinol? It's what I routinely use when I have any doubt. Works great for bent laminations. Almost no springback. Last customer I made an arch top window (redwood) for got a piece to try to break. That was pretty funny.
USDA Forest Products Laboratory says "Primarily for laminated timbers and assembly joints that must withstand severe service conditions." They also mention it's more resistant to high temperatures than wood and doesn't mind wet conditions.
Don't think I'd want to try it on wet wood though. Also needs 70* F. to cure, which is a winter problem. We have a local home center that stocks one brand or another. Not sure but that I'm the only customer.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
http://www.woodsmith.com/main/pdf/gluechart.pdfbobl Volo Non Voleo
resorcinol was my first thought but don't know how it works with green wood..
Excellence is its own reward!
Seems to me Frenchy's making a mistake not using dried lumber. Don't know what the strength requirement is.
I'd make a few more laminations, enabling the bending, and use lumber I knew wouldn't have any problems. With a glue I knew would work with it. More laminations is more stable and stronger, if you watch your grain lines. A little more glue and a little more time. What was that about "excellence"?<g>
That redwood window had a 6" radius, and redwood is nobody's first choice for bending. Wasn't cheap, but I expect it to outlast the rest of the house, unlike the one it replaced.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Give that man a cigar.
They recommend a list of glues for bent laminations.
Epoxy, urea resin, resorcinol, or polyurethane. They say resorcinol and urea resin are the most rigid when cured. Resorcinol is their first choice for outside, but since it dries dark, if you're using a lighter wood for outside laminations then use a urea resin glue called Unibond 800, which you can get with a light medium or dark catalyst to match different woods better. Get from Vacuum Pressing Systems (207)725-0935; $29/gallon.
That's all from American Woodworker Oct. 99. Hopefully the phone # is still good.
Of course, they don't mention how it works with green wood. Probably only something a wacko would want to know.<G>
Quite interesting the range of knowledge found here. I've never heard of that glue. Curious, what do others here think of American Woodworker Magazine? I'm quite impressed with the couple used ones I picked up. Guy also had some Remodler mags, but there were so many stinkin ads, and so little content that after flipping through one I ignored them. Surprisingly, I also picked up some of the Handyman club mags, and they were fairly good. In fact one showed how to do timberframing if you want to borrow it frenchy, just let me know.<G>
Thanks Billy,
But my wedding present to my wife was to quit smoking. LOL! It's been a loooong time. And not long enough.
I don't know American Woodworker but I don't get off my mountain very often. Blaspheming, I even gave up my opportunity at charter status with FW and FH. Don't know if you were around when they gave Norm A. his first big exposure. I'm among those who didn't/don't fully appreciate him. There was a stink and I was part of the exodus.
The primary reason I tune in here is the professionalism present. I've learned a whole lot in my brief exposure. My first query didn't go very far, about heat pump water heaters, but there's a depth of experience here that I wouldn't know where else to find. Consider that a "thank you" to those who've continued my education. PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
That is Resourcinol it's the same they use for plywood and Unidilla uses it for their built up beams and arches. but green wood alot of movement in wood as it drys.
Ok, I didn't realize just how crazy this idea was until I drew a sketch of it.
If you did it this way. My idea was to build a frame that the boards are bent to match. This framework would have to be much stronger then what I've got shown here, (this is just a 20 minute sketch) much crossbracing and shaping. But, the frame would be long enough to do all 10 beams at once. The frame shown is 22' wide, and about 8' tall. I used a 7' radius on the end parts.
In use, each board would be strapped down with ratchet straps. So it is gradually pulled into shape. While it'd be tempting, I don't think I'd attempt to glue the wood while green. Once each board is pulled to the right position, I would use steel banding to lock it to that spot. This way, the straps could be taken off and reused. In fact, I'd use a good deal of banding on the framework to tie it together. So instead of thousands of clamps frenchy would need to buy a few really good ones, and a banding machine and some rolls of banding. Each layer of boards would then be attatched on top of the previous layer until you had a thickness great enough to make your beam.
Once everything is strapped down, it is left alone for 1 year or more. Then metal straps are cut and resorcinal is used to start gluing the beam togther. This would be done top layer down, and metal bands or ratchet straps would be used to hold each layer together while the glue cured.
A tremendous amount of work, but if the green wood can bend that tight, this should work. Oh, and I'd put at least one extra beam on the bending jig, just in case.
Now, what does everyone think of this crazy idea????
That would definately work. it would be a bit big to have sit around for a year while the borads air dried though but it most definately would work.. Since Black walnut reacts to metal I couldn't use ordinary banding thu, instead I'd use a couple of lag bolts and a short piece of board , use the short piece of board screwed to the beam as a clamp.. A box of lag screw and some pieces of wood and I'd be set.
As I said before, you need to find a friend with some land. On old farmer or something. Maybe you could rent out one of his storage buildings for a year or two. Put the frame in there. Or, just disguise it as a big covered RV sitting in your driveway and tarp it real good.<G>
As to the frame itself, I'd get it built out of heavy gauge steel tubing welded together. Then face it with black walnut, anywhere the wood would touch the frame. Your lag screw idea would work. Or, if you build a steel frame weld some lengths of 3/4" or 1" thread-all to the sides where the beams will be, then use a series of spacers and bolt them down. Everytime you add a new board strap down the old one, remove the nut, strap down the new one, slip your spacer over and tighten the nut down, then remove the straps.
If possible, I'd knock out the old spacers and replace them with thinner ones while I was at it.
Have you thought about building a soaking tank. Putting the green wood underwater for a few days before bending? If you find you have trouble bending I think this would make the wood more flexible, but having never bent wood for any reason, I'm probably wrong.
Still, before going to all the time, trouble, and money of building a big frame, I'd figure out a way to bend a couple green boards to the radius needed and see how it goes.
Anyway, it's the only thought I've come up with that makes sense to me so far.
Good luck
Steel would cost a lot more than wood, plus I could make it out of something I could recycle into the house.. I'm cheap (remember?) and love to use and reuse things..
Besides I've done enough welding in my lifetime... I don't need another welding project to sit around..
Well, steel would just be my personal preference due to the greater strength, and ease of construction, but it would cost quite a bit. With your sources for oak and walnut timbers, wood may be a better choice for you. Plus, you know exactly how to frame it together, and have all the tools on hand to do so.
Didn't mean to blow a chance for you to timberframe something else.<G>
As far as recycling, nothing is easier to recycle then steel. Load it on a truck and drop at the recycling place, get some money back.
Still, seems to me your biggest problem is real estate. What you have is very nice, but also quite small. If you could find someplace you could lay this out and let it sit w/o cluttering up your space it'd be great. Though, the extra travel is a pain. Best would be a farm as many of them would have a tractor with forks that could be used to unload and load wood and beams onto a truck. Also, at least around here, many farmers have old buildings that are used mostly as old equipment and junk storage. So it may be possible to do it inside, or move it inside to dry once the boards are stretched on the rack.
So how about it, anyone in the Minneapolis area know anyone with a farm or something??
Anyway, how comes the roof and siding on your 1st section of house??
My preferance is to do things on site.. that way I can move relatively lite pieces of wood into place and assemble them and not have to figure out how to get large bowed timbers home again and up to the second floor..
My ideal would still be to use some sort of glue and form and glue them all in one step.
The stone work is just about done and I'm very proud of it! (wish I could post pictures).
all I'm waiting for is the address stone. (I had the address lazer cut into a piece of granite and will put it up as soon as it's finished)
as for recycling steel, I beg to differ with you.. I can reuse those timbers used to form the mold elsewhere in the house. worst case I can toss them into the fireplace and heat the house with 'em. <G>
Yeah, I can understand why you'd want to build things on site. Much easier, no travel time, no wishing you'd remembered X tool at home, or left it at the beam site. With your access to forklifts and contacts with contractors, I would think moving big things around wouldn't be much of a challenge for you.
As far as your idea of gluing up as you go. I think once again you're in fairly uncharted territory. Now, you might find some info somewhere, but where is a big question.
If it were me, I'd build a simple frame for bending a few boards to 6' radius. Get some green boards and try to bend them. If successful, great, then bend another set on top of those and use resorcinal to glue them together. Set aside and test it in a few months to see if there's any strength in the glue joint. Do some destructive testing. If the glue joints seperate, you'll probably have to dry the boards to shape then assemble, as I suggested. If the boards break before the glue joints, then you'll know you're ok.
The biggest question I see, is what happens as the boards shrink when they dry?? Just seems like you'll have problems as it drys, but until you try, you'll never know.
Bend a couple boards as soon as you can get some green wood, and let us know how it goes bending just a few boards to this size.
Hey, congrats on getting your stonework about done. So now you put up the fancy gutters and a few shingles and the exterior is about done. Maybe you can get Rick to come back over and take some digital picts and post them. I took a few pictures, but have no scanner, so I can't post them. But, I needed a wide angle lense, most of them are too close-up, at least of the interior details.
What I think I'll do is get the boards from the sawmill in 1/2 thickness and run thru my planner that should make them about 3/8ths If I steam both ends I think I can get them to bend to the radius without risk of cracking and then clamp the whole thing into a form so I wind up with twenty timbers.. I'll use sticker between each board and 1/2 I'll start on stickers and the other half not.. that way the slight differance in radius required will be accounted for so I'll be able to mix them together like shuffleing cards.. If they are only 3/8ths inch thick they should dry quickly.
I will need to bend some of the 6x6 timbers but I figure a few hours in a steam box and a sturdy enough work bench and I''l be able to achieve that..
banding comes in two types of plastic as well as metal.
there are hand tools you can use vice a strapping machine.
I've been looking at plastic strapping for use in a pond filter so i've been looking at a few sites.bobl Volo Non Voleo
A box of lag bolts and a strap of wood will work just fine.. then I can reuse the lag bolts when finished and toss the straps of wood into a fire.
The advantage of that sytem is the low, er no cost.