Kids went to lender for new home purchase.
From the GOOD FAITH ESTIMATE
Loan amnt $134,518. 5.125% 30 year fixed
Loan origination fee $1,322
Processing fee $525
Underwriting fee $795
$2650+ in fees to lender so far
Appraisal fee $400
This lender Home Savings of America is the preferred lender for this builder/developer of this subdivision. No outside builders, all are done by the developer.
Subdivision will eventually have 253 homes in 6 floor plans. Guessing appraisal will involve printing a new copy of last appraisal of this model with new names. $400 for that?
Survey fee $200
Again, this subdivision is owned by the builder/developer, the lots and infrastructure were designed and built by the developer, what’s to survey again. If they aren’t sure where they built the house, why is it the buyer’s responsibility to pay for another survey?
Home warranty $450
This is a new home in a new subdivision. Texas law allow the builder to sell it with no warranty? Have to provide your own?
I haven’t had a mortgage in a long time & never bought a new house either so don’t know how much of this is BS. It’s in Texas, never bought any RE in Texas so no knowledge of Texas peculiarities.
Free advice needed, we be the co-signers on this deal.
Joe H
Edited 10/4/2009 4:39 pm by JoeH
Replies
Well, the big thing that jumps out to me is
COSIGNERS!!!
run away
(j/k)
It's his kid.
All the more resign to not co-sign.Russell
They look quite normal to me. I hate the passing of costs in the closing fees, but I really don't know what can be done.
All mortgage companies these days want NO exposure. In our area it has become common for someone to put an offer on the house and not get it either because the mortgage company wouldn't approve or because the house didn't appriase.
Chances are if Joe doesn't cosign "the kids" won't be getting a house...
Another place you can get burned is when the seller is counting on a short sale, doesn't tell you, and then can't get the mortgage holder to go along. Happened to my BIL in CA.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
Well, the big thing that jumps out to me is
COSIGNERS!!!
Yup, made this mistake before, but without us, kids can't qualify.
Joe H
My only point (not well stated) would be that these closing costs would pale in comparison to taking over a loan for 30 years.
I think everyone has covered most of the fees.
We were looking to refi a mortgage a few months ago. It was 8-9k including prepaid taxes & insurances. We did not follow through. It was just too much.
There is a reason why the kids cannot qualify on their own for the house loan and it is not the bad rules at the bank -- it is the experience of the banks with many people who were extended credit that they could not handle. I have found that, if I am not careful, I can by my credit and financial muscle put my children into situations that they just cannot handle.
It is not just the purchasing of a house. It is the furnishing of that house, the upkeep of that house, the property taxes that living in such a neighborhood demands. Pretty soon the kids become overextended trying to have everything that goes along with the house they could not afford on their own. Of course, in the back of their mind is the thought that their parents, their co-signers will not let them fail.
You can do a disservice to your children by not letting them stand on their own two feet. The child that is carried all of his growing up never learns to walk on his own.
I know you do not want to hear this but, turn your children down on the cosigning for the same reason that the bank turns them down.
Terry
survey is really for lender, if it turned out builder built house in the wrong spot,maybe even the wrong lot,they want the title ins company paying. they won't do that unless they have a survey.
is the ho warranty optional? if it is i think i would pass.
i don't understand the processing and underwriting,maybe thats common.
i know you were looking at the 8000 tax deal,will this be able to be done and closed by deadline?
i don't know if this is all you have or all you question,because there is a lot more money due at closing.
1 yr insurance +2 months, 2 months taxes, probably another 40 for credit check, i'm blank on the rest...................
the older i get ,
the more people tick me off
survey is really for lender, if it turned out builder built house in the wrong spot,maybe even the wrong lot,they want the title ins company paying. they won't do that unless they have a survey.
I'm thinking builder should pay for the survey, they want to sell the house, this is their problem.
And this is their "preferred lender", if their lender doesn't trust them to have the house where they say it is, not my problem.
is the ho warranty optional? if it is i think i would pass.
Think I need to google Texas warranty laws, what the hell would warranty insurance cover that the builder wouldn't be responsible for anyway?
i know you were looking at the 8000 tax deal,will this be able to be done and closed by deadline?
Prolly not, any bets on they extend it? Saw it mentioned on the Sunday morn shows, who knows what those asclowns in DC will do next.
Yes, there are other costs but they look legit & normal.
Problem is, I'm old and grumpy too. I'd tell these people I'm not gonna pay any of this shh!t, if you want rid of this house here's the deal........
But, as Hillary Clinton sez, "It's for the Children"
Joe H
Call local lenders and ask for home loan person.
Give them pertinent info and have them fax you a good faith estimate
They will ask for loan amount, down payment, purchase price, credit score, type of loan you are interested in such as 30 year fixed rate, etc
In other words shop around.
Try wells fargo, bank of america, etc
Capital Federal was a big lender back in Wichita. I think they were number one as far as volume.
The loan origination fee of 1% is common.
But see if you can find a lender who does not charge a fee for loan processing and no underwriting fee.
The remaining fees are probably going to be similar from one place to the next
Compare interest rate and fees and make your decision
Call local lenders and ask for home loan person
Tomorrow's project. But we just moved here a month ago, don't have any history with our new bank. But gonna talk to then anyway, see what they say.
The loan origination fee of 1% is common.
But see if you can find a lender who does not charge a fee for loan processing and no underwriting fee.
I'm guessing I'm not going to escape the loan origination but the rest of it I'm not happy about.
The rest of the fees are reasonable except for a $50 copy and fax fee and $35 courier fee.
Bought and sold 4 properties in the last 2 years, I don't have $50 worth of copies for all of them and as far as I can recall from past buys & sells the only time couriers are needed is when the title co or realtor screws up and forgets to have something signed until it's last day of escrow and they suddenly find they're missing something.
Again, not my problem, you're a title co, all that paper is part of the cost of doing business. Grump old Joe ain't gonna pay for it.
Joe H
The Appraiser has to be very independent these days. And they might even work from a rotating list. And I suspect that the fees are standardized so while this one might make the guy a little more money the next one will make less.
This and the survey are expenses for the lender to protect them and have nothing to do with the builder.
I agree there is absolutley no need for then buying a HO warranty.
One thing that I did not see is fees for title search and insurance, and costing fees 9those are the filing fees, the cost of the escrow company or lawyer that collects all of the docs and makes all of the distributions, etc).
Those are what I am an used to seeing in this area. And they would probably run $750 to $1250.
I am guessing that those are covered by processing and underwritting fees.
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
Being that I build new homes for a living, I'm involved with the new home sale process on a regular basis - although from somewhat of a distance - since the REs actually "do the deal". We have had 2 houses fall through in the last 2 months, and BTW - we (DW and I) bought another house a few months ago too.
First, you need to get used to the idea that all mortgage companies have a bunch of BS fees. These are mortgage company fees, not builder fees. The way the "preferred lender" works is a builder signs up with a preferred lender and the borrower gets a discount of maybe 1/2 point. The builder gets nothing except to be able to get home buyers a slightly better deal. The reason the mortgage company is willing to do the 1/2 point discount is for the promise of mortgages on possibly 253 homes. Your kids can go elsewhere to get a loan.
Now I'll hit a few of the fees you mentioned:
Appraisal fee $400 - standard stuff required by any mortgage company. Sure, it may be likely be a rubber stamp of a previous appraisal, but be aware that if the deal, for any reason, doesn't go thorough, this $400 will be lost. Had that happen about a week ago. That buyer also lost the amount of a HI fee and of course I wasted my time resolving the BS items that the HI came up with to earn his fee.
Survey fee $200 - again required by the mortgage co. when building homes now aday we (the builder) are required to get a foundation survey once the foundation is completed just to get the $ draws from the bank. Four years ago I would draw up the plot plan on a cad program, the surveyor would go stake the lot, and we would submit my drawing to the bank... not any more... Again, the bank wants no liability and doesn't trust anyone.
Home warranty $450 I don't know how it works in Texas but here the builder is required to supply a 1 yr comprehensive warranty. (actually I've been looking for a less specific word that comprehensive :-) ). After that new home buyers often get a 10 yr structural warranty, that someone has to pay for. As a company police, we the builder buy the 10 warranty for the customer.
In summary everything you mentioned is not only standard with new home sales, but pretty much with any home sale. It's the mortgage company driving this stuff. You may want to tell "the kids" to try and get the loan without your signature, but, without knowing any of the financial specifics, be aware that they may not get the load without your cosign. BTW - a $134,518 loan is pretty minimal. I gotta think this is a starter home, but I don't know squat about home prices in Texas so who knows. For that matter, maybe they aren't ready to buy a home. Building starter homes I see this all the time - "hey - we just got a $500 tax refund - let's go buy a house!!!" OTOH, maybe yours have saved up a significant down payment, and if that is the case there should be no reason they shouldn't be able to get a loan on their own.
Seems about right.
I'm cashing out of a property I own for a land purchase, My loan amount is 140K at the same interest rate and term.
from the hud 1:
appraisal 400.00
credit report 18.00
tax related service fee 85.00
flood determination fee 7.00
underwriting fee 375.00
loan handling fee 250.00
courior fee 30.00
closing fee 400.00
title search 100.00
title ins 300.00
recording fees 575.00
total 2540.00
prepaid items (taxes, etc) 712.59
grand total 3252.53
We bought 3 houses in Texas, 2 were new. All had the lot lines surveyed and marked with flags. There was no question bwtween us and the neighbors where the lot lines were, came in handy when we built the fence. Bought a house in Va, the survey was optional, we bought it.
The home warranty is a waste of money. There are so many exclusions, they give you a book that lists normal variances, like the allowable size of cracks in sheetrock. It is a scam by the insuance company, and a marketing item by the builder that sounds better than it is.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Why use the preferred lender? The origination fee is a junk fee IMO and I would look for a loan with no points and no origination fee. Talk to brokers in the area and see what kind of action they have.
SWMBO is in the RE biz here in CA and those fees aren't all that weird. It might be worth it to ask what each fee is for and see if any are optional or negotiable.
Tomorrow plan is contact the locals, see what's up.
I will contact the "preferred lender" and talk to them about some of these BS items, maybe they're negotiable.
Joe H
Being from Texas and having a wife who is an RE agent, those fees are standard. Residential real estate contracts are a standardized contract and all those fees are what is permissible by law. Don't get me started on the courier fees and copying fees. Buyer usually pays for the survey as well.
It is highly unlikely that the builder will yield on who does the financing.
Make sure the kids get the house homesteaded as it freezes the rate at which appraisal value can increase for tax purposes.
Best of luck
Bruce
Couple of thoughts--
What is the loan APR? The farther it gets away from the interest rate, the less desireable the loan. As David said, a lot of those fees are junk fees.
One option to cut down the closing costs is to choose a slightly higher interest rate, like 5.25 and see how much of the costs can then be included.
I am not sure that using the builder's "preferred lender" is ever a good idea.
BTW, how much is being put down? PMI is something you may want to shop as well--I have never done that but different companies have different rates--you can also roll PMI into the mortgage as a one time cost.
If you are going to co-sign, can you make the mortgage payment if they cannot?
HAve no experience in Tx. Can say when we bought our house, through a very trusted small bank, we were able to cross out some of their fee's. Our RE agent gave us a list of BS fee's and told us to simply refuse.
The loan agent was a woman my wife knew from growing up. Wife had babysat her kids. So even though we got "personal treatment", the list of fee's as long.
We went through the list and crossed opff the ones the RE agent said we didn't have to pay. Some were removed, some reduced. One we were holding tight against, figured after the bank manager had to come over to "explain", that we really did have to pay.
Figured the guy was serious, as he was definitely pissed we were refusing to pay it.
Which we didn't mind one bit, or making the old family friend have to squirm a bit in her seat. In the end we knew we got the best deal we could. Our RE agent saved us a small couple of thousand that day, and the bank still sold their mortgage. Bet we didn't bankrupt them that day.
I'd think bank fee's, like most things in this world, are location based and change from place to place. You might want to track down an experienced local RE agent and ask if they'll lend a hand for a fixed fee.
excellent advice
You guys are in a different position
Your daughter has found the house she wants to buy and the home is under contract.
(as opposed to someone who approaches the bank wanting a GFE and they haven't even started looking)
You guys are a hot prospect and THE BANK WANTS YOUR BUSINESS
You are like the person who walks onto a car lot and announces that you are going to buy a car that day
The salesmen come running across the lot
That guy who was standing out side smoking a cigarette is now running toward you and he is straigtening his tie and putting on his jacket
In other words YOU ARE IN THE DRIVERS SEAT
Talked to the local bank yesterday, got the same estimate from them
Rate is 5%, down an eigth.
Other fees vary but add up to more than the original.
Think I will try a few more, and talk to a realtor.
There's a guy near here that we did business with, seems like he's competent.
I didn't feel like shooting him when we were done like some of them.
Joe H
when you look at the list of expenses, some are fees while others are "Pre-paids"In other words, things you would be paying anyway.For example:-prepaid property taxes-prepaid homeowners insuranceThere may be a couple of others that I can't think ofOn a side note, my father in law co-signed for a daughter and son in law(not me)Anyway they couldn't make the payments and so they moved out and he and I did a little work on it and he sold it and got out of itProblem solved.
Might try and see if you qualify for a local credit union. I was far happier with the loan experience getting a home equity with our credit union than I was getting a loan with Wells Fargo. Those courier fees totally irritate me - if they have 2 months of escrow to get their paperwork together then the document transport fee should be no more than $0.44. Honestly - they email everything anyway, so what do they need a courier for?
I've been reading this post and I have to agree with many on co-signing, but I still feel that helping your children still should be a parents priority. This is includes teaching responsibility. Housing prices are at a low and a good time for a young family to buy, compared to three years ago.
Just one question, where would you and your children be if they were asking you to co-sign three years ago? Housing around here is 40% lower and everyone that isn't walking is on the hook for the full loan amount while waiting for the market to some day come back... Would both of you be willing to accept that responsibilty or would you be ok if the children don't?
As for the dealing with a builder, they have written their contacts to protect themselves legally and finacially. Either get a real estate agent or a real estate attorney to represent your side.
When we looking at a builder home, we found that the rates and fees were easily beat by other banks. Once the builders' lender found they were the highest, they wanted to match the others rate (we were putting 30% down). The lender we chose went through the contract and refused to let us pay some of the fees. Some of the fees were typically paid by the seller. I doubt that the builder's lender would have done this.
Co-signing is a bad idea, but oh well.
Three years ago they were in California with jobs, then they weren't.
Guessing we'd all be rich if we'da seen the train wreck coming, but most of us didn't.
Right now we're rather see them in a house and our granddaughter not in an apartment.
As to the cost, if they get run over by the next train we can make the payments without a problem.
Can't say I'm ecstatic about the situation but it is what it is.
Joe H
That's ok Joe, I feal the same way. If my kids need a place for my grandkids, I would do the same>G<
That's ok Joe, I feal the same way. If my kids need a place for my grandkids, I would do the same>G<
Ever read "The Millionaire next door"?
It makes a pretty compelling argument that doing something like this is not in the best interest of your childrens overall, long term financial health.
Nope, I know there are reasons not to, but it is my grandchildren I ansd Joe are concerned with.
When you have grands, you will understand, Robert>G<
Dave
robert, think I've seen you post about some hellacious college tuition fees you're paying for your kid(s)?
They both work, and they both go to school. They're both working on engineering degrees to add to their present degrees.
This deal won't kill me if it goes bad and will get them started ahead of the time they can without us.
Joe H
I do pay some pretty serious tution...............with the intent that when I'm done, they start out owing nothing and driving a safe, reliable car. Even if it isn't a "cool" one. They start as Zero.
My son even knows.six months after graduation to find a full time job, six months after that to be out of the house. No student loans, no car payments, no excuses.
My point is that there a pretty compelling argument that Adult Children who recieve significant financial help from mom and dad.................end up needing help for far longer.
I've seen kids who get help and use it as a springboard to great things.............but more often I see kids who continue to need help.
Only you can make the assessment of where your kids fall.
My Loser-in-Law is 48 this year............and mom and dad have been helping him get on his feet for like......................................28 years now.
A friend of mine worked til he was 72 because his kids couldn't live on his retirement.
Sad but true.
We're co-signing for the loan, but not giving them a ton of money.
If it doesn't work out I'll not be happy, but I'd rather see them in a house than an apartment.
Not all choices work out as we hope, but we can still hope for the best.
Joe H
Joe,
You've made the decision to help your kids by cosigning. You thought long and hard about it before you did. Now quit defending your decision to your internet friends :)
Just wanted to throw out somethingAs a realtor I showed some new homesTypically the basements were unfinsishedIn the home were plans to show what the finsihed basement would look likePrices were around $40 K for a contractor to finish basement in a 1,000 sq ft homeThe home sold for about $125 with unfinished basementAnyway, I think it gets tricky when you buy a brand new home and have the builder finish the basement.The $125,000 home just won't appraise for $165,000 with the finished basement
No basement, frost level there is whatever is in the fridge, not in the ground.
Joe H
Well as you said, We'd all be rich. Right now, it doesn't seem to be turning out this way, at least for us. I see it as a wonderful thing that you are able to help them because it is a great time to step up and start saving for their future.
Think of it all As CYA for the lender.... and potentially you.
And the companies doing the research employ people that have to eat, just like any of us.
I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
Take life as a test and shoot for a better score each day. Matt Garcia
Joe H,
I echo the advice posted earlier - your kids should hire a real estate attorney to represent them. If you're co-signing, you should hire one too.
And I would be highly suspicious of using the builder's preferred lender. If they won't let you use an outside bank, I'd consider walking away.
Lastly, are you or your kids eligible to join a credit union? Shop them too.
Good luck!
Outside lender is ok, just tried the preferred first.
I have a credit union acct but it's in CA, don't know that they loan in TX.
Local bank here has different fees but end result was higher closing costs.
Still looking.
Joe H