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David,
As the poster of the solar energy thread I feel as though I need to explain my interest in solar energy even though this may not exactly address your question
I am planning the construction of my new home that is located only 700 ft from the main power lines. Yes, it would be much cheaper to connect to the public utility, but the satisfaction of not being connected to a system that I rely on that has absolute control over me is immense. They make the rules and unless you like them, you live in the dark. Yes, I know, public utility commissions are set up to regulate them, but this is sometimes like friends regulating friends.
As to y2k, I personally don’t believe that it will bring about any where near the chaos that some people predict. The idea of armed gangs roaming the countryside seems a little unreasonable to me. This paranoia about y2k may cause us to overlook an important issue that it brings up. Preparedness.
How many of us will wake up in the morning with the belief that our power will be on? How many of us have just a few drops of gas in our vehicle relying on the gas station to have gas in the morning? Do you really have enough food in your house to last just one week? Just think what would happen in this country if the trucking industry was idled for just 3 days? My message is that we should be more aware how unprepared we are to live just one week without outside assistance. I am not a survivalist whacko, just a guy who has stopped to think how dependent we all are.
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David,
As the poster of the solar energy thread I feel as though I need to explain my interest in solar energy even though this may not exactly address your question
I am planning the construction of my new home that is located only 700 ft from the main power lines. Yes, it would be much cheaper to connect to the public utility, but the satisfaction of not being connected to a system that I rely on that has absolute control over me is immense. They make the rules and unless you like them, you live in the dark. Yes, I know, public utility commissions are set up to regulate them, but this is sometimes like friends regulating friends.
As to y2k, I personally don't believe that it will bring about any where near the chaos that some people predict. The idea of armed gangs roaming the countryside seems a little unreasonable to me. This paranoia about y2k may cause us to overlook an important issue that it brings up. Preparedness.
How many of us will wake up in the morning with the belief that our power will be on? How many of us have just a few drops of gas in our vehicle relying on the gas station to have gas in the morning? Do you really have enough food in your house to last just one week? Just think what would happen in this country if the trucking industry was idled for just 3 days? My message is that we should be more aware how unprepared we are to live just one week without outside assistance. I am not a survivalist whacko, just a guy who has stopped to think how dependent we all are.
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Well David, here goes:
We build in western Montana where most people are pretty self sufficient anyway, but I happen to be in the process of remodeling our local Y2K "community group" leaders' home. He has requested some rather unusual (though practical) things in this remodel. The home is in a rural area. The water is supplied by a well but we had to drill another well and put an old fashioned hand pump on it so they could still have water if the power went out. We installed a wood-fired water heater that was plumbed to tie into the gas water heater so that the one not in use at any one time could be used as a hot water storage tank while the other one heated the water. We installed all gas appliances (propane) that could work with or without electricity and installed three (yes, 3) separate 500 gallon propane tanks so they would have plenty of propane on hand if supplies get short. We installed two "Quadrafire" wood burning stoves for heat. We built three large pantries full of shelves for stocking up food, etc. and installed an old "Majestic" wood/coal cookstove out on a summer kitchen room. They bought two 300 gallon gasoline tanks and placed them up on storage racks so they would drain by gravity into a vehicle gas tank (no electric pump). We also built a storage room for some large batteries that will be charged by solar power, and installed a lot of 12 volt lighting in the kitchen areas. He wanted me to build them an outhouse, but I told him I couldn't because outhouses are illegal. He said then he would have to do that himself. They also have a large garden area with a small greenhouse and a rootcellar. This has been an interesting project for sure. But I have to listen to them every day asking me what I'm doing to get prepared because they don't want me sneaking over there after food or water when we run out. Maybe I should be listening......
*Ray; Wow! Sounds like they are going to be set. For anything. I'm planning on battery backup/120v-invertor for my heating system. Not because of the Second Coming or anything like that. But because we get power failures and, sometimes, -40 temperatures.Like the bumper stickers say, at least your cows are sane. -David
*I realized today that I have to be prepared regardless of whether the Y2K thing is valid. I've seen how the supermarket shelves get ransacked in upstate NY when there was even a possibility of a blizzard; with Y2K, you'll want to buy your staples in advance. Bet the merchants are salivating over this one.Please skip the ammunition, please.
*Ah, the good ol' days of "What are you going to do when the Commies come?" Same squirrel, different nuts? Or some variation on that theme. Survivalists all have one message, no matter what the motivation:Me First.Wait 'til their new hut catches fire, and look at them zip around crazed. "Hmmm, loose all my stuff, or compromise my paranoid security... what to do, what to do..."So far, my Johnson Speed Square has passed all the Y2K testing I've done, and I'm auditioning Pearl Divers for alternative ways to power my air-nailers. Wicked Good lung capacity, them Pearl Divers. (Might not have E-lect-ricity, ya know.) Any helpul suggestions appreciated.
*George: Tin cans and string for a job-site communications systemI forget the species, but there's a tree in the Brazilian rain forest whose sap can be run straight, in a diesel engine. And to reload your .22 caliber power-actuated hammers, my favorite anarchist's explosive (a variate of white gun powder): bat guano and fruit loops. It really works, although not as well as modern smokeless powder. And a really big lens (or parabolic mirror) to sweat pipes. -David
*Ray, I may be making a few assumptions, but from your description it sounds like you couldn't afford to be prepared! This guy has spent about $20k in preparedness! I think January first we will all be laughing at this group of wackos.-Rob
*Hi David,Things are kinda slow here in th Adirondacks. We are still waiting for Star Wars to come to the local theater. No one is talking about Y2K much, because the general consensus seems to be that whatever happens will not occur up here till Y3K. (Probably Y4K for you folks up in Alaska).There was an interesting article in the 'New Yorker' I believe that pointed out that errors in calandar keeping since the time of Christ, when taken into account, suggest that Y2K actually happened in 1995. Wasn't that the OJ trial or something?Andrew is right, I broke a part on my chainsaw during the icestorm of '98 in upstate New York, so while I was in town, I went to the grocery. Picked up bread and milk no problem, but they were out of BEER! the manager said that when the NWS predicted the ice storm, 500 cases of beer were sold out in 12 hours. Good thing we homebrew!
*Yup yup yup, we've got it licked where we work, just finished our y2k conversion. Proudly sent in the following report to management:"Here is our status report, as requested:Y-to-K Date Change Project StatusOur staff has completed the 18 months of work on time and on budget.We have gone through every line of code in every program in every system. We have analyzed all databases, all data files, including backups and historic archives, and modified all data to reflect the change. We are proud to report that we have completed the "Y-to-K" date change mission, and have now implemented all changes to all programs and all data to reflect your new standards:Januark, Februark, March, April, Mak, June, Julk, August,September, October, November, DecemberAs well as:Sundak, Mondak, Tuesdak, Wednesdak, Thursdak, Fridak, SaturdakWe trust that this is satisfactory, because to be honest, none of this Y to K problem has made any sense to us. But we understand it is a global problem, and our team is glad to help in any way possible.And what does the year 2000 have to do with it? Speaking of which, what do you think we ought to do next year when the two digit year rolls over from 99 to 00?We’ll await your direction."
*On Whidbey Island, WA whenever the power goes out for any period of time (which frequently occurs), many of the local stores have back up generators for the lights, but not the freezers. So, you get free ice cream. If the power grid goes down at the year 2000, we won't need food supplies when we can all live on the free ice cream that should be available nationwide.
*Andrew:I thought you lived in VA now. In Richmond and Northern VA it is also common for the sighting of snow on a weather forcast to cause all the milk, bread and toilet paper to vanish from the store shelves. I thought it was a regional phenomenen.They have predicted a slight dusting of snow on saturday, guess I'm already too late to shop....Frank
*Andrew - your comments made me think of something a friend told me. He works at a large dairy plant, where they bottle milk. He said that they had their biggest week in the history of the company right after the first of the year, when that big snowstorm hit the midwest. He said people go out and buy far more milk than they can posibly use. Then the milk they can't drink spoils, and they go out and buy more the next week.
*George,Forget the divers. Stock up on nitrogen cylinders. You can run nailers on 'em. 150 cubic foot cylinder = 880+/- shots from a framer. Costs about $16 each to fill. So add a dozen of them to your collection. Also - don't forget to stock up on batteries for your tools and have them all charged up for new years. One months worth ought to be only about 60 or so full batteries - no biggie.-Rob
*Yes, Frank, we're in No. VA (Arlington) now. At least being so close to D.C. I can be confident that cool heads will prevail through the crisis.A friend of a friend works for FEMA. She will be spending New Year's Eve in what they call "the bunker." Hmmm. And whatever the FAA says, be wary of flying -- at the least there will be terrible delays. The FAA is one of the worst of the worst.Excuse me, I gotta start stocking up on milk. What do y'all think -- stucco or vinyl on the fallout shelter?
*I say stucco. This will give you the illusion of concrete!! Solid as rock. Vinyl would only give the illusion of wood - surely the hoards would think they can tackle wood.-Rob
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Most folks don't know enough about Y2k to realize just how serious it's going to be. Those who blow it off are making a grave mistake. The only customer who I've been doing y2k work for is myself.
When smeone like Sherry Burns, head of Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) ofice studying Y2k says:
"We're concerned about the potential disruption of power grids, telecommunications, and banking services. There is very little realization that there will be disruptions to some basic services as computers shut down or go haywire, even among business leaders. As you start getting out into the population, I think most people are again assuming that things are going to operate the way they always have. That is not going to be the case." (reported by reuters on May 5, 1998)...
...that makes me realize something is really going down with y2k. While most people yawn at such quotes, I'm of the mind that I need to make some prudent preparations.
Go to http://www.garynorth.com for some sobering insights into Y2k. North is much maligned and lampooned for his dire views but he supports them with a steady stream of evidence in the form of internet news links. His detractors provide precioous little of this. Check it out.
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Of course, this is the same same CIA that was totally surprised by the breakup of the Soviet Union. Fortune tellers they are not.
*That's a good one andrew!Jack : )
*I'm sure that internet news links are a very reliable form of evidence, too. I have never heard of an unsubstatiated rumor being spread on the internet.
*... except what you just said ...Hey, how do i know this newsgroup isn't hooey?
*Robb, sorry... no go on the nitrogen cylinders. I realize it'll work, but all my time is devoted to feeding Fruit Loops to my Bats, and training them to use my empty .22 casings as Port-a-Pottys. See David's post for clarification. Semper Paratis!
*It is...
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Heck, if you don't recognize hooey when you see it,
give it the old (and familiar) smell, touch, and finally, the taste tests.
*To prepare for the inevitable loss of communications and power, my clan has been stocking up on large amounts of small arms an reloading equipment and good horse stock. Forget the food. We'll overtake the ones who bought from gnorth and fartbell.
*Fishman, et al--First, Gary North and Art bell do not sell food. All one has to do is go to the grocery store and buy a little extra. And your little comment about forcibly taking from those who have the foresight and conviction to prepare for themselves and their loved ones is hardly humorous. People who are wise enough to stock up some extra supplies are wise enough to realize that the world is full of people like you whose ethics justify stealing and harming others, and they will probably be prepared to deal with your "small arms".As for Y2k critics and doubters, you are certainly entitled to your opinions. We will all find out soon enough how this story will unfold. I sure hope it's nothing. But what if it does indeed prove to be serious? What will I be out if my preparations prove unnecessary? Not all that much-- money is beside the point--food will be eaten. What will come of those who mock and ignore y2k only to find that it is serious? They may find themselves in a very regretful situation.If y2k is bad (and there is a lot of evidence it could) there will be two kinds of people out there. Those who are part of the solution and those who are part of the problem. Those who have made some prudent preparations for themselves and their families ( and in some instances even their neighbors) will be part of the solution. Those who have done nothing will be part of the problem.Hey, even the american red cross is saying y2k could be serious and people should make some preparations. They're even telling people to withdraw money out of the bank early this year to avoid long lines later in the year. I'll e-mail the ARC web page to anyone who is interested. Enough said from me--I'll not post here again because I realize this is not the intention of the thread, but I have a genuine concern for people who mock what they don't understand. Y2k is not a joke.Best wishes to you all,H C Kimball
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A nice way to look at this that gets away from all the hype was suggested by a friend near S.F. He said he's setting aside some things just like he should have all along for an earthquake. (Easy for him, since most of the food this guy eats doesn't go bad ... Doritos, Gatorade, he's ready.)
So we in Virginia will prepare for an earthquake too.
*Saop box mode on.Yeah, so I took a look at http://www.garynorth.com. Good grief!, you need be wearing more than hip waders when reading that site. As an example, in one of his links to "Yourdon, Should Programers Quit and Leave town in 1999", Yourdon goes on about needing to convert 100,000 lines of code per day if your company has 100,000,000 lines of non-compliant code as of June 1st, 1999. Why in god's name would you be screwing with all 100,000,000 lines of code when only few thousand lines of that total might involve an assumption of the first 2 digits of the year (Y2K problem). These kinds of wild reckless generalizations point out that the author does not understand the subject or has chosen to selectively undersand it, which makes the whole article suspect. Anybody who has ever written more than a 100 lines of code, knows that there is no such thing as bug free code. Y2k is a bug, it just happens to be a widely recognized one. Officials can say that their systems are Y2K compliant, but they can not say that they will not have any Y2K problems, any more than they can say that they will not have any bugs in their programs. Immediately interpreting the latter as some form of denial or endorsement of an impending disaster suggests paranoia on the readers part.I have no doubts that there will be some issues involving computers, with the coming of the new year, as there already has been. But this "Chicken Little" stuff is getting nuts. It appears that some of these folks are actually looking forward to the end of civilization. I agree with another poster's comments about preparing for an earthquake, even if you live in Virginia. Personally, I am looking forward to picking up a portable generator, cheap, still in the box, next summer for use around the construction site.Soap Box mode off.
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David-
If you've read this site at all, you had to expect these answers. Myself, I really liked the one about changing "Y" to "K". Basic preparedness is a fact of life in the frozen north, so we aren't too worried. As far as the gal in the K-Mart goes, she probably commit a paranoid suicide brought on by cabin fever. Then you can buy that little used new shotgun at auction! Y2K will have it's benefits. I think maybe I'll go stock up a cabin on a popular fishing stream, maybe the Russian? And since Fish & Game won't be able to do spit, burn the reg's! Heck, might as well run up the old credit cards! Withdraw all your cash or convert to gold?? Why? You'd make yourself into more of a target! These wako's come up with some new reason to run around crying the end is near. Any body remember the backyard bomb shelter? What did you plan to do if everyone else died and everything was chock full of radiation?? Livin' large in Alaska, and luvin' it!
*H.C. - Ok, so the sarcasim is wasted on your intellect. Fortunately, I am not uninformed, but rather have heard G North on Art Bell, and Art did have an ad for storable food sources. Secondly, my sarcasim is based at the idiots out there who are using the Y2K situation as the new soap box, because the global warming threat just didn't build like they'd hoped. ANYONE who does not have the basic preparations has only themselves to blame, and one should carry such items as spare clothing and basic preps on something as simple as a road trip. As for the "roving bands" of thugs... they won't be able to mobolize: ergo my sarcasim. I wouldn't mind myself, if everything did happen the way these wackos are predicting... after all, us northener's are quite used to toughing it out and living off the land. Thank god we've kept the greenies at bay so that we still are able to live off the land. So: cancel you're job list (you were planning a vacation?) and burn the fishing regs and set up camp and provisions on that hot spot on the stream....That's it for me, too. I can't explain sarcasim to liberals.
*A good client of mine requested a 6500 watt honda electric start generator and shed this weekend.Anybody watch Tom Brokaw this evening? Getting y2k compliant?2/23/99.
*A good client of mine requested a 6500 watt honda electric start generator and shed this weekend.Anybody watch Tom Brokaw this evening? Getting y2k compliant?2/23/99.
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"The Bunker" - Is that the place in Culpepper that the Federal Reserve Bank has been shoved out of? It really is amazing to find out what our government has up their sleeve. How about that basement wing of the Greenbrier that was kept secret for years by the locals untill a reporter stumbled upon it. I was shopping with my daughter in your area and parked in a garage, followed the signs I thought to the store and ended up at the security checkpoint for the Defense Security Agency with the Marines in charge. That can get your attention real quick.
Frank
*"basement wing of the Greenbrier"? Help me, I'm ignorant :-)You know, the Internet is the biggest step for free speech since the printing press. I love this instant (inter)national communication, regardless of what the networks or newspapers think is newsworthy....
*Well, stucco basically IS concrete, right?I've decided to go with metal armor. They were having a sale after the dismantling of a battleship. With the camouflage paint, you can barely even see our house from 30 ft away. Now, you just try to steal our milk!
*Art Bell does not sell food.Art Bell sells Hype.Get it?
*
Saw a woman at the Kenai Alaska K-Mart gun counter going off about how pleased she was with her new 18-inch 12 gauge with pistol grip and 9-shell magazine. And what good defensive rounds 00 buckshot are. For "Y2K reasons - when maraudering gangs of armed North Roaders come through". Her quote, NOT mine. Some people listen to a little too much Art Bell.
That and some recent posts about solar energy got me to wondering. Have you gotten any interesting Y2K-related requests from clients? A desire to be off-the-grid right in downtown? A "ski cabin" with a 100 yards of concrete?
I don't want to debate if Y2K is real or not. Nor whether you'd take an airline flight at midnight on New Years Eve. Just about how your clients are reacting in their building requests.
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Woooooah! That's deep, dude! (Please refer to "The Big Labowski" for an interpertation).
You're right, as always!