Hello,
I would like to get some input on a situation I’m having with the business i purchased granite countertops from. Back in June, they installed the countertops and backsplashes. However, about 1 1/2 months ago a perspective buyer pointed out that one of the backsplashes was broken. It appears that the installers broke the backsplash and then tried to cover it up by simply gluing the two pieces back together and trying to blend it. I contacted the company at the time and informed them of the problem and was told it would be taken care of, however nothing has been done. I contacted him again last week and then today, and this time the guy was just hostile. I’m getting the impression that i may have to get my lawyer involved.
The questions i have are, if he refuses to fix the situation, do I fix it through another company and then file suit to recover costs or, can i take legal action to force him to fix it or present the court with estimates for fixing it, and seek monetary damages in that amount. Also, since there is variations in color and such from slab to slab, what if he tries to fix it with a poorly matched piece?
thanks,
dp
Replies
After 4-5 months you're going to have ahard time proving they broke it. Call the shop and ask to speak with the owner. Ask him to go to the house. Be very nice on the phone and in person. Show him why you think his guys did it.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
It is obvious that they did it. It was broken, glued back together and then installed. They glued it to the counter top. There's no way someone could have slugged it with a sledge hammer, somehow dismantle it from the counter top, glue it up and reinstall it.
Right. But be nice and you'll get better results.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
It took 5 months to discover the defect? They must have done a fairly decent job of gluing.
If I'm not mistaken, that can be an acceptable repair. Depends how well done. 5 months later and someone else bringing it to your attention sorta describes how well done...
Now, if you've simply been too busy with something else and that was the first time you've seen it since installation, that's something else.
5 months? I guess that could be within some people's definition of a warranty.
I'd be working on my people skills with the company. Or my backsplash repair skills. Whichever is easier.
It sounds like an acceptable repair - but shouldn't the customer be informed when a repair of that nature is done? Presumably s/he paid full price for the materials and labor rather than getting a discount on the broken piece. The customer might have been OK with it if the contractor had just informed him of the damage at the time rather than trying to sneak it by.
Might have been an open fissure that was filled and polished at the quarry.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I'd try to make nice with the owner and get him to fix it free. If you actually drag your lawyer into it and try to sue, you'll spend so much time and money as to make it absolutely not worthwhile. If it were me I'd spend a few hundred having a different shop repair it then go to that extreme. Life is short, live it well.
If it took you 5 months and someone else to point it out to you I'd say your on your own. Using epoxy (glue) is an acceptible repair for broken stone as long as it is not in a high traffic area. (counter top or floor) If you get a lawyer involved you will spend likely 20 times what it would cost to have someone else repair it if it does indeed need to be repaired. Be nice to the owner and he may do you right but dont be surprised if he tells you to get lost.
On my own, ya right. Did you ever hear of a warranty. Here in New York, work is warrantied for one year. The guy's crew purposefully tries to conceal it, and you say I'm on my own, that's ridiculous. I didn't pay 7k for broken granite. They chose not to inform me of it, and instead to just go ahead and put it in and try to conceal it. It's not real noticeable, but it's still there. And what am i supposed to do, just pass the problem on to the buyer, and hope he or she doesn't notice it. What's if they do, and then want me to pay for the repair? So what if it took 5 months to find, what does that have to do with them doing shoddy work, and being fully aware of it and choosing not to disclose it. That's garbage, and so are the majority of you twits who are essentially telling me too bad. This is a 400k house that i put great effort into. A broken granite backsplash is not acceptable. Nor should it have to be.
OK... we're twits... but you should have QC'd their work carefully before paying them. And, you haven't posted back to tell us that you called the owner and discussed the issue with him. Go ahead and call your lawyer, it sounds like what you want to do anyway.
After reading that rant, I think I see why the stone company guy might have gotten "hostile". Sheesh, why'd you ask?PJ
Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end.
When countertops go in on my jobs, I am there and watching and critiquing and guiding.
They don't get paid if the job isn't up to snuff.
WHERE WERE YOU WHEN THE TOPS WERE INSTALLED?
Have you gotten the answer you wanted yet?
Ericyourcontractor@aol.com
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
"When countertops go in on my jobs, I am there and watching and critiquing and guiding.They don't get paid if the job isn't up to snuff.WHERE WERE YOU WHEN THE TOPS WERE INSTALLED?Have you gotten the answer you wanted yet?Eric"Ok, I'm sure you catch every mistake that's made in the construction of a house. Get real. As for the other questions, I did nicely call and explain the problem, and i was ignored. Finally, the third time of nicely reminding the owner of the situation, HE got hostile. "Just telling it the way it is". No, that's not the way it is. You don't get to do shoddy work, try to hide it and expect the builder or owner to just accept being screwed. Unless maybe that's how you do business. As for legal action. There are plenty of avenues to pursue other then retaining the lawyer to research and prepare an extensive case. There's always good old small claims court, commercial claims court, or simply a letter or two from your lawyer to get the point across that it's in his best interest to remedy the situation. This granite company is a long established business, who certainly wouldn't treat a big builder this way. I'm small so he thinks he can intimidate me. An associate of mine, who is a project coordinator for one of the larger builders in the area has said the same. That they would never try to get away with something like this on one of his builds.
You and Nuke need to hook up and talk some. Both seem to thrive on asking opinions, not liking the answer and then taking the approach that everyone else is crazy because they disagree with you.
No one said bad work was acceptable. They said you couldn't prove who did it or when and since you were so late in finding it you would be hard pressed to get anyone else to prove it.
Along with that fact you are a small customer you have no real relationship with the vendor so they probably think you broke it and are trying to blame them for it. To a guy that bought 10 jobs from them last year and complained about one, 2 days after the install, they would probably tend to believe him right away. You may not like that but simple human nature means the person who you have an on going relationship with is the one you believe and are going to work harder to please.
But you really don't want to hear the truth. You just want to hear how others have been burned the same way so you don't feel bad about missing the mistake on your watch or that the granite guy should be drawn and quartered for treating you so poorly. But unlike your "associate" no one here has that personal friendly relationship with you so like your granite guy we don't feel like we have to work harder to please you. DanT
I can't believe that you had the nerve to call people who attempted to help you "twits". I'm impressed that this thread didn't turn ugly at that point.
Now, you post a variety of options that you're considering (other than just accepting the issue) as if you were hoping someone would have told which of them to pursue. Why didn't you list them in your first post and ask which would be best? And then just ignore the responses that you didn't like. Telling someone to "get real" is not going to encourage them to help.
In fact, even if I thought I knew what you should do, I wouldn't post it now because I don't need to be criticized for free advice.
-Don
That's garbage, and so are the majority of you twits who are essentially telling me too bad.
I'm starting to understand why your granite company isn't jumping through hoops to make you happy. Look dude.... everyone's just telling you the way it is, which isn't necessarily the way it's supposed to be or should be. You're getting honest answers. Not the ones you want to hear apparently, but honest answers none the less.
What are you gonna do? You can...
1. Call your lawyer and spend the cost of the repair four times over.
2. Get it repaired through someone else and find a new granite supplier.
3. Call the orignal shop and bedazzle them with your charm and wit and get them to want to make you happy.
4. Kick and scream and fight everyone who tries to help you. And still have a broken backsplash.
Me? I'd call the original installer one more time. I'd nicely explain that you need to have this fixed. By them or someone else. Give a definite time frame in which the repair needs to be completed, and mention that you "don't want to get your lawyer involved unless you have to".
But personally, if the original shop doesn't fix it, I'd just eat it. And tell everyone who'll listen about what a bad shop they run. View Image
Of foremost importance is determining who the real twit may be. Be sure that it is truly broken and not a repair from the quarry or a natural occurence as others have mentioned. That is a likely explanation.
I can't see the difference between an onsite repair, if applicable, and a repair of the stone at a quarry. Again, like others have said, if the repair is so unoticable (assuming it is repaired) then I am not certain that it is as big a deal as you're making it to be.
You do seem easily irritated. Be a little more objective and reasonable and you will find that you get better results.
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. -Albert Einstein
http://www.peteforgovernor.com
After reading all the posts here I'm guessing this isnt one of the options available to the OPer.
3. Call the orignal shop and bedazzle them with your charm and wit and get them to want to make you happy.
Doug
getting a lawyer involved dosnt garantee success or results maybe his lawyer is less of a twit than yours
I agree with others, talk to owner nicely. When yelled at or talked to in a hostile tone, most people will get defensive and mad/angry back at you and will be uncooperative.
If that does not work, or that does not suit you, before going to a lawyer, you could try BBB.1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go 4 - get a new board and go back to step 1
I would also caution you against determining that the stone is actually broken with out having removed and inpected it.
Often stone ( and I have seen this) may have faults or fissure running through them where they literally are "broken" but still held together by minerals and such. On the surface this can appear to be identical to a fracture, because it is.
It doesn't mean you have a broken backsplash or that someone broke it.
If you are willing to take the chance, pay another fabricator to remove it and verify that it was truly indeed broken by the installers.
If you are not willing to take this chance, good luck.
Eric
yourcontractor@aol.com
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
400K...sounds like a trailer with skirting...with a redwood deck and carport.
400K ain't much anymore...there was time when it was...but that was quite a long time ago.
"400K...sounds like a trailer with skirting...with a redwood deck and carport.400K ain't much anymore...there was time when it was...but that was quite a long time ago."Gee, my house is just so modest, I guess i should be thankful that any of these contractors would lower themselves to work on such a crummy little trailer. Where I live, 400k is still a pretty big buck to spend. Do I sound irritated? Considering quite a few of the contractors i used did a poor job, 3 of them now have gotten belligerant and have tried to intimidate, ya I am irritated. It wasn't until i got a good project coordinator with good contacts that things began to go better.Regarding this granite guy. He came recommended by a rather prominently well known building supplier. I am hoping this will give a little leverage, as I'm sure Mr. Granite guy will be less willing to piss him off. Unfortunately, where I live it's become more about greed, and many of these guys will do only what they have to or can get away with. Someone else also mentioned about documentation. I have the contract and the guarantee in writing from the company. I'm sure these will more then suffice in a court.
I know if I went to the magistrates with no documentation and said I asked, they said screw U, and I paid someone else to fix "it" ...
that I'd not get paid for the fix ... because the original contractor wasn't given the chance to fix his mistake. The magistrate wouldn't just take my word for it.
This sounds like an expensive route to take.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
DP:
You've gotten what we in the countertop business call the "taillight warranty". When you see the taillights of the installer, that's the end of your warranty.
I tell prospective customers stories like yours constantly yet they go with low bidder and wonder why they can't get a call-back handled.
If it took a prospective buyer to notice the "repair" and you couldn't see it for five months, it sounds like these guys did a pretty good job.
You cannot seriously involve an atttorney, relative or not, and be cost-effective on a little seven-grand job. My lawyer won't pick up the phone for seven grand.
I know that you don't want to hear everything I've said. I count on my real friends to tell me the truth and they do and that's why I love them. Anyone will tell you what you want to hear, but your friends tell you what you need to. Open ears, close mouth.
"DP:You've gotten what we in the countertop business call the "taillight warranty". When you see the taillights of the installer, that's the end of your warranty.I tell prospective customers stories like yours constantly yet they go with low bidder and wonder why they can't get a call-back handled.If it took a prospective buyer to notice the "repair" and you couldn't see it for five months, it sounds like these guys did a pretty good job.You cannot seriously involve an atttorney, relative or not, and be cost-effective on a little seven-grand job. My lawyer won't pick up the phone for seven grand.I know that you don't want to hear everything I've said. I count on my real friends to tell me the truth and they do and that's why I love them. Anyone will tell you what you want to hear, but your friends tell you what you need to. Open ears, close mouth."This is fine, I appreciate your response, your not being insulting. The insinuation been made before that it is somehow my fault for this guy's crew screwing up and trying to conceal it, is very offensive. Hey, i wish i would have seen it right away, but I don't know too many that can catch every mistake so quickly. I didn't see the break when it happened, and i'm pretty sure that it is a break because the glue line goes all the way through when looking at it from the top, as well it is a little offset at the top. Whereas the face is flat and continous the top is not. I do not live in the house, i go there once or twice a week to check on it. The granite was one of the last things to go in. I'm fed up with these guys who think they can just screw you over. Though this isn't that big of a situation, I thought I was done with this house as far as building it, months ago, and was done with belligerant jerks, and then i have to deal with this jerk.
no offense dude...but who is to say that your complaints are reasonable?
sometimes people have unreasonable expectations. without a photo or seeing it first hand it is impossible to know if you are being practical.
The insinuation been made before that it is somehow my fault for this guy's crew screwing up and trying to conceal it
Actually, that is not true. Not a single person here has said it's your fault that the defect is there. It is your fault for not finding it for 5 months.
Hee's a suggestion for your documentation: Call another good granite shop in town, ask them what they would charge for a house call, and pay them to look at the backsplash and render an opinion as to: 1- is it a natural defect or an installation break, and 2- was it repaired in a industry-standard manner.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Got news for you.
All stone product has cracks in it.
Some have large PoppaBear cracks.
Some have little Babybear cracks
and some, like Momma, have cracks that are JUST RIGHT!
My stone guys says that he has never in his life installed a perfect piece of stone. The trick is to put the flaws in the right places. Sounds like these guys might have done a fine job, maybe they didn't.
But you are trying real had to ignore the practical advice given here - that there is now way in heaven or hell that you can FORCE anyone to do anything. It is clear that these guys do not want to fix this 'flaw'
so that means it is up to you to get it fixed, pay for it, and then figure out how to recup the costs from the installer. Whether you prevail will depend on how well you can document the issue and how well you can present your case to the judge. Based on the facts you present here, and the way you present them, you better find a VERY sympathetic judge. The only way you'd win is to find a judge who had just been screwed by a contractor himself, and was feeling as intemperate as you are.
Bottom line is if you want it fixed, get it fixed on your nickle. Quit wasting time and money on legal for such a pickeyune thing.
Myself, I'd probably fix it for you if it were me, but that depends on the attitude of the customer sometimes. I showed up once to fix a questioinable warranty issue one time and was met at the door by an irrational HO spewing venom and accusing me or mine of stealing soemthing from his house that had never even been there to begin with.
I turned around and wrote him a letter, which is all he's ever seen of me since. something about you reminds me of him.
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Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Ok Piffin, jump on the bandwagon and take your smug cheap shots. I know you are very good at it and enjoy your own snide commentary.
DPerfe,
In rereading just your posts in this thread I saw where you said "it is a little offset at the top. Whereas the face is flat and continous the top is not. I do not live in the house, i go there once or twice a week to check on it." [Italics by ed.]
The piece was broken.
It is understandable how a newbie builder would miss it for a while. We call this "tuition."
Newbie or old hand, you're still going to get treated like every other builder just coming into a suppliers market.
If you want this, or any, supplier to eat all his profit and then some for for a first time buyer, you must never, ever cop an attitude, no matter the provocation.
SamT
" In rereading just your posts in this thread I saw where you said "it is a little offset at the top. Whereas the face is flat and continous the top is not. I do not live in the house, i go there once or twice a week to check on it." [Italics by ed.]The piece was broken.It is understandable how a newbie builder would miss it for a while. We call this "tuition."Newbie or old hand, you're still going to get treated like every other builder just coming into a suppliers market.If you want this, or any, supplier to eat all his profit and then some for for a first time buyer, you must never, ever cop an attitude, no matter the provocation.SamT"Sam, I appreciate the advice. When I talked to him today, he did an about face which got my blood running, because i thought i was done having to deal with this kind of stuff. The first time i talked to him, he said he would take care of it, so i thought the matter was settled. Today he gets hostile, and i even asked why he's going after me, when it's his crew he should really be pissed at. They're the ones who turned it into a bigger issue by concealing it and not simply dealing with it prior to installation.
Like the others have been trying to tell you, stone isn't perfect and cracks, natural or otherwise, are a fact of life and you would be surprised at how many "perfect" slabs have epoxy repairs here and there as needed. That's a fact.
To a reasonable person, if you paid them in full, it sounds as if you've looked at their work and deemed it acceptable. Who in their right mind wouldn't take a look at something as important as a granite counter top?
You're a professional in the construction industry and should know better.
You've discovered a perfect example of why subs shouldn't be paid in full until you've closely inspected their work. Period.
A year ago we had a couple kids installing a slab and scratched a window that was $1000 to replace. We offered that either they have the window replaced and we'll cut a final check for the full contract price, or we can replace the window at our rate, as stated in the sub agreement. They balked, were spitting mad, and just about ran outside and pulled up grass barehanded. They also fixed the window.
See how easy this is?
Best of luck,
Don
Sounds like you're pride is wounded and you're just mad because you didn't see it right away. My guess is most other people won't either.
You need to chalk this up to experience and move on. Consider it tuition in the school of homebuilding. You think that $400K buys you perfection?!? There are plenty of $1,000,000+ homes with flaws in them. Get over it! No one here likes getting screwed any more than you but you're attitude towards your fellow Breaktimers tells us all we need to know! IMHO...
"but you're attitude towards your fellow Breaktimers tells us all we need to know! IMHO..."My attitude? Read from the beginning, a bunch of them going after me, placing the blame on me for the contractor's poor workmanship. I asked a question and got a lot (not all) of crap in return. You talk about attitude, a bunch of these guys are just jumping on the bandwagon taking cheap shots.
Perhaps we have not explained ourselves corretly.
You have taken an inamininate object - a piece of stone, and turned it into a personal war. Everyone's out to take advantage of you.
That project coordinator thing is probably the best thing you've done.
I would like to see a picture, though.
Edited 1/30/2006 11:08 pm ET by peteshlagor
Picture has been posted in the photos board. You have to look back a couple of months
You have to look back a couple of months
We have short memories ... help us a little.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
removed
Edited 1/31/2006 12:09 am ET by dperfe
D:
I thought of you today.
I'm installing 5K worth of engineered stone. The shop forgot to drill the faucet hole I paid them for so I have to bum a diamond hole saw from another shop and drill it myself.
I clamped the jig on the deck and pour in some water, drillin' away fine. Pull out the bit to pour in some more water and nick the backsplash edge with the bit! Damn! Of course, this is the longest piece of splash, so switching for a cut-off is not an option. Thank God it was a chip instead of a scratch or I would've really been screwed.
I put a little patch-o-matic on it and when it cured, I scraped it flush with a razor blade. You can't see it, and unless you feel real hard for it, you'd never find it. Cambria Victoria, lucky forgiving color too.
Customers owed me $3,400.00 but paid me $3,600.00. Either I'm a hell of a nice guy, or I do some a$$-kickin' work or both.
If their smart-a$$ brother-in-law comes over in five months and finds it, I'm not replacing that splash or giving them a refund. It's a proper industry repair.
I have to confess something.Some of the wood I have used had knots in it.whew! I feel so much better to get that off my chest
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Some of the wood I have used had knots in it.
And you're concealing that from your clients? Tisk, tisk.
LAMO
I don't see a picture of the discussed backsplash in your photo. It's more of a landscape problem.
Yes, you can really see how bad a job the granite guy did from this picture.http://forums.prospero.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=65817.1
That looks mor liike an artists rendering from a plans book than a photo from a site. But that is just my lonely opinion.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
The clouds were a bit odd..................looked goofy to me as well.
I thought perhaps because it was resized; I opened the smaller version.
It was real hard to see the backsplash though.
yourcontractor@aol.com
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
I went back and looked at the original. I was wwrong. It's a real honest to goodness McMansion
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Complete with McGables!yourcontractor@aol.com
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
i'm warning you - don't get me started now...
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Vinyl McGables at that!!!
I'll tell you one thing...that granite in that pic
Looks good from my house
Yep, the whole world is out to get you!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
This is not"another cheap shot", but there is two sides to any disagreement. Alot of the Breaktimers have seen this many times from both sides of the coin. Since no one but you can see your particular problem, we can only assume by what you wrote and what we read from between the lines.
The fact that he did not inform you you has concerns, but I hope that this "defect" is withing normal conditions within the specific trade(though,maybe not for you). If it wasn't, he should have informed you. It should have been before, not 5 months later. He also should have educated you on natural materials. One fabricator I worked with in the past actually required the customer to approve the actual slabs/material, and sign a form about the inherant properties of stone. But then again, is it always the responsiblity of the contractor to educate the consumer about every detail of his/her profession? At times, the client only wants to to see the bottom line($$$) and nothing else. I do not know if this is you,but I hope/doubt it.
There is something else to keep in mind. The size of the slabs and the number available, and the color match. Also, the number of slabs figured into your bid
More than likely, your job was bid with the stones/sizes that were available. I would assume that you approved the slabs before he started, right?. The problems come with fabrication and "unforeseen" materials defects. ALL stone has flaws, it is just a matter of how bad they are. Go to any slab yard and run you hand over the slabs, you will feels the minor imperfections, cracks if you want to call them that. Now, what is a guy to do, have a piece crack on the install and he repair it onsite, like they normally do, or replace the piece with any leftover material, if there is any. If there is none left, do you expect him to go buy another $1500??? slab for one piece of back spash? Maybe yes, for some people, probably not for most of the guys on this site. Now that it is 5 months later, what he had is probably gone.
I have had fabricators bid out jobs based on the material available at the time. If time goes by, then the job cost changes, because the slabs that are now available may not fit the current job. I have also seen some buther work done where a fabractor used too many seems on the tops, just to keep the material cost down.
In another case the homeowner screamed at the amount of seams. It came down to actually being the homeowners fault because the homeowner beat him up on the job cost so much, that the fabricator told him the only way to do the job for that price was to get it all out of three slabs and there would be additional seams. He just never said how many
The other is maybe there is no more of that material availble, or the grain/color is no where close to the material already used. At that point, do you expect him to tear it all out?
If he had asked you whether it was or wasn't accectable, and he informed you at the time that there was no more available matching material, what would you have done?
Edited 2/1/2006 1:34 pm by migraine
http://www.stonepowerhouse.com/phorum3/index.php?sid=85b1386200faa19bdcc88ecce54c6735
Here is a link to a granite/stone trades forum site. Ask you question there for the input from folks who work with granite and get their perspective on your issue. I suspect you will get similar advice in terms of properly done epoxy repairs being industry acceptable methods of dealing with cracks (which are common in natural stone). However, perhaps they will be able to offer you some other insight. You might want to include some pics of what you are talking about, because otherwise it's pretty tough to comment on how reasonable your concerns are regarding the defect/repair.
Edited 1/31/2006 7:27 am ET by Kivi
There is'nt one of us here that has'nt covered our mistakes in one form or another. In my own house when I walk into a room my eye automatically goes to that blemish in the wood work or some unfilled nail hole. To everyone else the place is pristine.
If I'm working for a customer and I damage something its my responsibility to fix it or disquise the damage. Hopefully I can do it before the client knows about it so his eye isnt attracted to it every time he walks in the room. A successful repair means a happy client.
If you had never noticed the repair without someone pointing it out to you after 5 months I would say the installer did a pretty darn good job. Let it go.
In all honesty the fabricator could remove your backspash, cut out the offending area and reinstall adding a short piece to make up the difference in length. That would legally cover his warrantee obligation. Which would you prefer?
Your never going to get another fabricator to come to your house for a lenth of backspash. One trip out to measure and another trip to install. It would be a waste of his time. Then what happens if the granite is a shade off or the grain runs in a different direction from the other pieces. I would think that would be more noticable than your un-noticable fissure repair