Replies

1. 
   Hooker | Jan 30, 2005 04:37am | #1

   Chuck-

   I'm no granite installer, but I've been around it enough with the cabinets I've installed.  Sometimes they use an epoxy mixture in the seams to hold them and fill the gaps, much like a seam filler.  If you could get your hands on that mixture that would match the granite color, it would be the best bet.  I would bet the supplier has it and any instructions along with.

   ADH Carpentry & Woodwork

   Quality, Craftsmanship, Detail

2. 
   WorkshopJon | Jan 30, 2005 05:05am | #2

   Chuck,

   If you could post a digi pic, I think you might get more responses.

   WSJ

3. 
   andybuildz | Jan 30, 2005 06:30am | #3

   You better post pic...plywood underneath??? How come? I've never had to do that but none the less....sounds to me like your base cabs have shifted or settled but even still...with plywood underneath?

   Sounds like a settling issue more than the counter top issue...
   Whatcha think?
   Be well
   a...

   The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!

   When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..

     I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,

   I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.

   I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you

   and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.

    

    

   
    

   http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

1. 
   FastEddie1 | Jan 30, 2005 08:24am | #6

   When I had granite installed on the last job, the fabricator said that 3 cm stone can span across cabinets by itself, but 2 cm needs a min of 5/8 ply subtop.

    I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.

4. 
   Karrl | Jan 30, 2005 06:33am | #4

   Chuck, that sounds like a very wide seam if you can see the substrate below it. You should probably use a knife grade polyester resin. Most installers swear by Akemi. Braxton Bragg sells it and their telephone sales reps are very helpful.

   I try to get my seams so tight that even a single edge razor blade wont fit in it prior to gluing. I have great results using Cyanoacrylate adhesive (super glue). I have it in three different viscosities for different gap filling ability and a heptane accelerator spray to make it set up almost instantly. You will love having this stuff for a variety of household uses if you choose to buy some. I know rocklers sells it. Be sure to acquaint yourselves with all the quirks of CA glue prior to using it. It is gnarly stuff. The accelerator makes it incredibly versatile.

   I have also used marine 5 min epoxy with adequate results.
   In a pinch use acrylic artists paint to tint the resin. I have special pigments I usually use.

   Good luck,
   Karl

1. 
   andybuildz | Jan 30, 2005 06:47am | #5

   this is why I said there must be some sort of shifting or settling....from what I gather....the seam WAS good but aint anymore.
   Could be wrong in my assumption....its been known to happen.If not then he shouldnt have allowed the installation to go on without correcting the situation...its really not all that difficult.
   a...The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means.. I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides, I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace. I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us. http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

   Edited 1/29/2005 10:49 pm ET by Andy Clifford(Andybuildz)

1. 
   Karrl | Jan 30, 2005 09:24am | #7

   I have had neighbors of jobs I am installing come by and ask me if I will take a look at some degraded seams on countertops that have been in place a few years. Everyone I look at seems to have been bonded/filled with polyester resin. Polyester resin doesn't seem to respond well to damp environments and it seems to lose its grip on the stone and get knocked out of the joint by routine kitchen activities.This is one of the reasons I use epoxy or CA adhesive. I only use polyester for temporarily gluing up multiple sections so they can be polished as one piece. Just heat up the polyester with a heat gun or propane torch and it releases effortlesslyThe CA glue is good but epoxy definitely is my glue of choice. I have never had properly mixed epoxy fail. I use either the west system or Touchstone flowing epoxy. I am wary of any epoxy that cures in less than two hours as it seems to be a similar but weaker resin.The other poster is right about the plywood with 2cm stone and no plywood with 3cm stone. FWIW I put 2cm granite in my first kitchen without plywood and it was fine. I did use plywood in my current kitchen. The plywood thing is a not much of an issue without knowing more details. It all depends on the type of granite, the use it will be subjected to and the fabricators experiences.Good luck with your soapstone. I concur with the poster in your thread who said that scratches add character. Karl

   Edited 1/30/2005 1:25 am ET by karl

1. 
   UncleDunc | Jan 30, 2005 10:14am | #8

   IMO, a seam in a granite counter is a design error. You can get granite in 5 x 10 foot pieces, maybe bigger for all I know. If that won't do the job, it's time to either change the design or switch to a material that can be joined seamlessly, like solid surface or stainless steel.

1. 
   FastEddie1 | Jan 30, 2005 05:52pm | #10

   IMO, a seam in a granite counter is a design error.

   Depends.  I did a kitchen remodel, client just had to have uba tube / verde labrador, took three slabs to do all the counters.  One counter was 14 ft long.  The island was 9 ft x 4'-6" ... had to look hard to find a slab long enough to allow for fabricating.  In the end, she changed her mind and went with a stone that had strreaks of orange and purple ... name escapes me now ... much prettier than it sounds.I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.

2. 
   dIrishInMe | Jan 30, 2005 06:46pm | #11

   Are you saying that the client had one set of (rather extensive) granite tops installed and then changed her mind and got another color stone?  Wow!!! Matt

3. 
   FastEddie1 | Jan 30, 2005 07:37pm | #13

   Oh no!   She was odd, but not that much.  When we started talking, she had a small (3x5") sample of uba tuba and was determined trhat she would use that for the counters.  When it cam time to select the slabs, we looked at (seriously) about 40 slabs at two different vendors, and she decided she didn't like the dark color.

   My point was, sometimes you can't design-out a seam ... you have to work with what's there.

    I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.

4. 
   JeffBuck | Feb 01, 2005 02:00am | #17

   U don't work in very big kitchens, do ya?

    

   Jeff  Buck Construction 

      Artistry in Carpentry

           Pgh, PA

5. 
   UncleDunc | Feb 01, 2005 04:01am | #18

   A few. Enough to form an opinion.

2. 
   andybuildz | Jan 30, 2005 05:50pm | #9

   karl
   I have no clue what the glue they gave me is because its in German other than some small directions in english.
   It has to be an epoxy I think because I have to add hardner that they also sold me.
   The directions do say to use tint for polyester though. Says it takes approx half hour to dry.
   I would think it would be the right stuff being that the stone company sold me and uses.
   Thanks for the advice....goes appreciated
   Be well
   a...The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!

   When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..

     I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,

   I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.

   I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you

   and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.

    

    

    

   http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

1. 
   BillHartmann | Jan 30, 2005 08:36pm | #15

   Epoxy is not the only adhesive that uses a hardner or catalyis.Bondo is polyester based as is common resins used with fiberglass.From the very, very little that I have worked with them epoxies are commonly a 1:1 to 4:1 mix while the polyesters are maybe much less (maybe 20:1, 50:1). But there might be other produces that are much different.

2. 
   clettenberg | Jan 30, 2005 07:57pm | #14

   Karl:

   Thanks for you quick reply.  I can see that my first post caused some misunderstanding.  Since I am a counter top rookie my explinations were unclear.  Im responding to you because you seen to be the close to the solution.

   First, I think I misidentified my counter top as grantie.  I was a stonelike material that came in coutertop size that was placed over top of plywood.  The edges were fromed so that they wrapped the plywood. 

   Second, the seam is not very wide.  I was discovered when i crawled into the dishasher space and looked up and could see daylight from the bottom.  Of course  I assumed the crack extented beyond the plywood since I was looking from the bottom up.  Anyway I suspect that even a small hole in the seam will gladely accept water that will come from the everyday use of the nearby sink.

   I really appreciate your recommedations as to what product to use.  If possible, could you give me enough detail so that I could find the product manfacturer on the net.  I know this is always not possible but any help would be appreciated.

   If I need to explain more....do not hesitate to ask.

    

   Oh for what it is worth....  My given name is Karel...  I dont understand the "e" but as a little kid i was not tough enough for a girls name so Chuck it is....

    

   Thanks again

   Chuck  (Karel)

    

    

1. 
   Karrl | Jan 31, 2005 11:54pm | #16

   chuck, it is starting to sound like you have a gap in a laminated edge rather than a gap between two large sections of countertop joined by a seam.If this is the case you want a glue that can use capillary attraction to draw it into the gap. I would probably use Cyano acrylate glue (super glue) in whatever viscosity would fill the gap but still be drawn into the crack deep enough to get a good grip.Once the glue is cured I find steel wool will wear down and smooth any excess glue to the point that it is virtually undetectable. It always helps to tape off the surrounding area to minimize glue on unwanted surfaces. I have used steel wool without reservation on GRANITE only so double check how it effects your particular countertop.I mentioned rocklers sells ca glue and accelerator but it is much cheaper on ebay. I bought some from a RC model airplane supplier on ebay. The only problem is you need a good spray bottle if you buy the accelerator in bulk (rather than in a little spray bottle that rocklers sell). The spray needs to be in a mist like a hairspray pump bottle.You should post a picture if you want a better informed answer.CA glue is amazing stuff if you know when and where to use it and don't get it on your skin. My only shortcoming is when I use to much accelerator and the glue goes from crystal clear to white. ie use accelerator sparingly.Most of the penetrating epoxies are difficult to apply and take forever to cure (and are expensive)Polyester resin doesn't bond well.Hope this helps,
   Karl

5. 
   maverick | Jan 30, 2005 07:22pm | #12

   The granite installer on a kitchen I did recently had a seem that was tight at the counter edge and open almost 1/8" in the rear. He crushed up a peice of the same granite into a fine powder with a hammer and added it to the pigmented epoxy, then filled the gap with it. I almost could'nt find the seem when he was done