FHB Logo Facebook LinkedIn Email Pinterest Twitter X Instagram Tiktok YouTube Plus Icon Close Icon Navigation Search Icon Navigation Search Icon Arrow Down Icon Video Guide Icon Article Guide Icon Modal Close Icon Guide Search Icon Skip to content
Subscribe
Log In
  • How-To
  • Design
  • Tools & Materials
  • Restoration
  • Videos
  • Blogs
  • Forum
  • Magazine
  • Members
  • FHB House
  • Podcast
Log In

Discussion Forum

Discussion Forum

Granite Help

N8 | Posted in Construction Techniques on March 23, 2006 06:22am

The fabricator/installer of a granite co. is scaring us. We are at the end of a kitchen rebuilding and have just the countertops to do.

Issue 1, Rusty says, is that the 30″ cabinet won’t accomodate a cooktop and granite countertop.

Issue 2, The amatuer drywall done by myself is off by 3/4 ” and that He, Rusty, being a pro, won’t attempt to set granite on counter.

Issue 3, The drop-in sink most likely break the granite.

I thought we were comming in for a smooth landing, instead it seems its dark and the runway lights have been shut off. I’d appreciate any input about this delimma. Also, If there are any dryway/carpentry experts available to assist, We live in the Washington, DC area.

 

Reply
  • X
  • facebook
  • linkedin
  • pinterest
  • email
  • add to favorites Log in or Sign up to save your favorite articles

Replies

  1. dustinf | Mar 23, 2006 06:40pm | #1

    Issue 1, Rusty says, is that the 30" cabinet won't accomodate a cooktop and granite countertop.

    Is the cooktop at the end of a run, or some reason the granite won't be supported by a cabinet on either side of the cooktop cabinet?  Is there going to be a seam near the cooktop?

    Issue 2, The amatuer drywall done by myself is off by 3/4 " and that He, Rusty, being a pro, won't attempt to set granite on counter.

    How is the drywall off by 3/4"?  Is there a hump, or something else?

    Issue 3, The drop-in sink most likely break the granite.

    Why not use an undermount?  I can see his concern.  Behind, and in front of the sink, the counter top will only be a few inches wide.  Granite doesn't have much strength when laid flat.  You have to imagine all the weight of a sink full of water, and dishes, putting all the load on the granite in these areas.

    Is there another granite fabricator, that could give you a second opinion?

    Speak the truth, or make your peace some other way. 

    1. User avater
      PaulBinCT | Mar 23, 2006 06:52pm | #2

      (Issue 3, The drop-in sink most likely break the granite.

      Why not use an undermount?  I can see his concern.  Behind, and in front of the sink, the counter top will only be a few inches wide.  Granite doesn't have much strength when laid flat.  You have to imagine all the weight of a sink full of water, and dishes, putting all the load on the granite in these areas.)

      Out of curiousity, am I missing something? How does the undermount sink create less stress? If there's really an issue, couldn't you easily provide some support for the sink from below that would (maybe at the loss of some storage) eliminate the problem?

      PaulB

      1. dustinf | Mar 23, 2006 06:56pm | #3

        You're right.  You could support the underside of a drop-in sink the same as an undermount.  But, if you are going to do it, why not go with an undermount? 

        I think that is one of the big advantages of granite, or solid surface, tops.Speak the truth, or make your peace some other way. 

        1. User avater
          PaulBinCT | Mar 23, 2006 07:11pm | #4

          I understand dustin, I guess where I'm losing you is how the undermount sink (at least the ones I've used) put less stress on the granite?  The only ones I'm familiar with use a combination of anchors and silicone to mount and IIRC have no more support than a drop in sink... I think... ?

          PaulB

          1. dustinf | Mar 23, 2006 07:15pm | #5

            We used to do it that way, but one too many failures.  Now, we fabricate a plywood "lid" for the sink base.  The granite installers cut out the "lid", and the undermount is siliconed to the granite, but supported by the plywood.Speak the truth, or make your peace some other way. 

          2. User avater
            PaulBinCT | Mar 23, 2006 07:16pm | #6

            Ahhhhhhhhhhhh... That explains it! Thanks, I've actually worried about that many times, although never had a problem yet ;)

            PaulB

          3. dustinf | Mar 23, 2006 07:20pm | #7

            The only problem is that I can't use tilt out, because of the way the plywood is mounted.

            So, I just order the trays, and fasten them to the inside of a sink base door.Speak the truth, or make your peace some other way. 

          4. User avater
            PaulBinCT | Mar 23, 2006 07:24pm | #8

            Always nice to know that I'm not paranoid... just cautious ;)

    2. N8 | Mar 23, 2006 10:43pm | #9

      Dustin & Paul,

      Thanks for you input.

      I guess to help as visualation, we broke thru a wall (nlb) to create an upside-down L shape kitchen. To make the flow better in this design we swapped window/door position. So what I've ended up with is a wall which if I scale back may not be flush w/window sill and if I ad on will look odd.

       

      To clarify, the layout is an upside-down L shape kitchen. On the short side/top, is the 30" cabinet, and yes, it is on the end. How much clearance should we account for to make this happen? Should I attempt to cut into the corner unit to accomodate for clearance?

      2)To attempt to make it clearer, we swapped window/door positions, so in the corse of my amatuer work, the long side of the L, the top & bottom are'nt plumb (?) and are off by 3/4"-1". The end of the L/the bottum is where the door is.

      3) the sink drop in vs. undermount debate is confusing me. How much clearance again does one need? Aestheticly, I think the drop in will look nice. The undermount w/ extra holes for faucet head does'nt really appeal to me.

      So i'm in the bag, how do I get out w/o stripping back down and starting over?

       

      1. User avater
        PeterJ | Mar 23, 2006 10:57pm | #10

        N8, I'm having trouble visualizing the "plumb" problem.  Is it cabinets that are out or perhaps not vertically aligned on end of run?

        Cabinet can probably be reinforced to hold granite and sink if need be. Specifically, what are Rusty's concerns?

        Pictures will be of help get more info. Even a sketch.PJ

        Everything will be okay in the end.  If it's not okay, it's not the end. 

        1. N8 | Mar 24, 2006 12:25am | #13

          Thanks for your input Pete,

           

          The plumb issue consists of:

           L  - upside down, the long side is off the wall at one end

          At staightest point along the wall, using as a guide, a straight edge separates from wall by 3/4"-1".

           

          1. dustinf | Mar 24, 2006 12:32am | #14

            is the short leg of the L square to the long leg?

            Are the cabinets shimmed out that far from the wall?

            Plumb 

            adj.

            Exactly vertical. See Synonyms at vertical.

            From http://www.websters.comSpeak the truth, or make your peace some other way. 

          2. User avater
            SamT | Mar 27, 2006 02:07am | #16

            N8,

            The picture your words are painting for me is that the short leg of the "L" is at the top, touching the ceiling. The end of the long leg of the "L" is resting on the floor. I guess the base bottoms of the cabinets are mounted to the other wall, or can you walk around and view the undersides of the cabinets?

            The counter top is out of plumb by 3/4" - 1"  in the distance from the floor to the ceiling, and the granite guy doesn't want to hang the countertop in less than a straight up and down (plumb) position.

            As to the sink being an undermount or drop in, it won't matter because a bowl won't hold water laying on its' side.

            I'm pretty sure that is not what you are really trying to do.

            IS IT?!?!?!

            View ImageSamT

          3. donpapenburg | Mar 27, 2006 04:17am | #17

            Fill the void with joint compound /plaster and then feather it out to a straight wall. 

          4. N8 | Mar 27, 2006 06:25am | #18

            Thanks SamT & Others,

             

            OK, thank you for your drawing. Sorry, I don't have drawings or pictures but I will make the attempt tonite to have them for illustration. Back to your drawing, if you laid it down, horizontally, that would be it.

            I have found a cooktop with a min width of 26". I feel positive that this can work.

            I believe the granite is 1 1/4" thick. This can cover the 3/4" gap, won't it?

            The sink issue is really losing me. The sink we choose, looks nice and cost less. Is there somthing thats not being said about the durability  of granite? Will the lip of the granite/part being covered crumble away from being untreated? (overtime)

             

             

             

          5. woodnutter | Mar 27, 2006 06:03pm | #19

            I used to work for a stone company and my job was to help customers, fabricators, and installers deal with these issues...

            1) have the tops been fabricated already?

            If they haven't been, you can bump out the sink cabinet to give you more "meat" around the sink. This works if you want to get an oversized sink into the cabinet.

            2) What are the cutout dimensions for the stove and the sink? What size is the sink cabinet?

            Is the stove a slide-in range or a drop-in cooktop? does it have a downdraft ventilator? Is the sink a standard 33x22? cast iron? americast? stainless?

            Generally the stone (yours is 3cm) can be rodded to support more weight we used tension bars, the same used on fences. We stopped using all thread in 3cm stone because it wasn't giving it enough support.

            Have you thought of using a different stone? The lesser priced ones like Ubatuba, Gallo St Cecelia, Mariposa (butterfly) green are not as dense as the Absoloute black, black Galaxy, or Volga Blue.

            Although, I must admit, your installer doesn't seem to be that experienced to be able to help you out with suggestions on how to deal with your problems.

            Another suggestion, If the wall is out (not flat) and you don't want to mess with it anymore, why not have the stone installed and then do either a full height splash along the offending wall or do a tile backsplash? Either would look better along the wall than just paint.

          6. N8 | Mar 27, 2006 07:54pm | #20

            Thank You Woodnutter,

             

            I have considered and will place a mosaic tile along the "offending" wall.

            The cooktop cutout spec says a min. of 26"w and 19"d. The way I read it there will be 3 pieces/slabs of a rosecolored stone. On the short side 66x26 where cook top will be. I think, 90"x26" on long side w/ sink, stainless steel, 33x22. The left over space will be a remnant 20x26.

          7. N8 | Mar 27, 2006 07:55pm | #21

            Also, at anytime, me being an ametuer, is this somthing, once cut, I can attempt to position w/ help of strong freind?

          8. woodnutter | Mar 27, 2006 08:16pm | #22

            Most definitely!

            Make sure that you use 100% silicone to stick it in place once you get it there. Seams can be done with either a color matched caulk or if you have a couple of bucks, use some stone epoxy tinted to match the predominate color of the stone. You can get both at a local stone supply, or online.

            Drop in sink holes are usually cut in the house once the stone has been glued in place. Expect a LOT of dust. even if you use vacuums, dust collectors, shrouds, etc...   There will still be dust everywhere in the room.

            Also, FYI- undermount sinks look good, but if they ever dent, leak, or crack, you WILL have to replace the stone on top because it WILL break when it is removed to replace the sink. I always prefer a cast iron drop in sink.

            The only other option for the cutout for either sinks or stoves are to strip it. Which means that the fabricators make two strips (one for the back, one for the front) so that if a strip cracks, it is more easily replaced than a whole piece with a cutout...

          9. N8 | Mar 27, 2006 10:28pm | #23

            A MOMENT OF CLARITY BROUGHT US BY.... WOODNUTTER!

             

            THANKS FOR YOUR HELP. i THINK I SEE IT NOW.

      2. dustinf | Mar 24, 2006 12:14am | #12

        N8

        Your explanation isn't very clear.  Pictures would be best.

        There is no way to have a drop in cook top in the end cabinet, that I know of.  You'll have to add an end panel, or another cabinet.  I'd suggest something at least 3" wide, but 6"-9" would be ideal.  The cooktop needs most of the room to drop in, and that doesn't leave anything to support the end of the granite.

        What size cabinet is your sink base?  I don't understand what clearance you need.

        Did you work with a kitchen designer?

        I don't understand what could be 3/4"-1" out of plumb.  Speak the truth, or make your peace some other way. 

  2. paperhanger | Mar 24, 2006 12:09am | #11

    Just for the hell of it, try another granite  fabricator. You have nothing to lose and might actually get the job done without any B.S.

  3. Bruce | Mar 27, 2006 01:04am | #15

    On your issue #3, the fabricator I use almost always routs a groove front and back of the sink opening and epoxies in a stainless steel rod.  Makes a huge difference in what the stone will handle.

    Bruce

    Between the mountains and the desert ...

Log in or create an account to post a comment.

Sign up Log in

Become a member and get full access to FineHomebuilding.com

Video Shorts

Categories

  • Business
  • Code Questions
  • Construction Techniques
  • Energy, Heating & Insulation
  • General Discussion
  • Help/Work Wanted
  • Photo Gallery
  • Reader Classified
  • Tools for Home Building

Discussion Forum

Recent Posts and Replies

  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
View More Create Post

Up Next

Video Shorts

Featured Story

Podcast Episode 690: Sharpening, Wires Behind Baseboard, and Fixing Shingle Panels

Listeners write in about fireplaces and ask questions about sharpening hand tools, easier wiring upgrades, and fixing cedar siding.

Featured Video

How to Install Exterior Window Trim

Learn how to measure, cut, and build window casing made of cellular PVC, solid wood, poly-ash boards, or any common molding material. Plus, get tips for a clean and solid installation.

Related Stories

  • Podcast Episode 690: Sharpening, Wires Behind Baseboard, and Fixing Shingle Panels
  • FHB Podcast Segment: Hand Tool Sharpening Tips
  • Old House Air-Sealing Basics
  • A Drip-Free, Through-Window Heat Pump

Highlights

Fine Homebuilding All Access
Fine Homebuilding Podcast
Tool Tech
Plus, get an extra 20% off with code GIFT20

"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.

Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters
See all newsletters

Fine Homebuilding Magazine

  • Issue 332 - July 2025
    • Custom Built-ins With Job-Site Tools
    • Fight House Fires Through Design
    • Making the Move to Multifamily
  • Issue 331 - June 2025
    • A More Resilient Roof
    • Tool Test: You Need a Drywall Sander
    • Ducted vs. Ductless Heat Pumps
  • Issue 330 - April/May 2025
    • Deck Details for Durability
    • FAQs on HPWHs
    • 10 Tips for a Long-Lasting Paint Job
  • Old House Journal – August 2025
    • Designing the Perfect Garden Gate
    • Old House Air-Sealing Basics
  • Issue 329 - Feb/Mar 2025
    • Smart Foundation for a Small Addition
    • A Kominka Comes West
    • Making Small Kitchens Work

Fine Home Building

Newsletter Sign-up

  • Fine Homebuilding

    Home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox.

  • Green Building Advisor

    Building science and energy efficiency advice, plus special offers, in your inbox.

  • Old House Journal

    Repair, renovation, and restoration tips, plus special offers, in your inbox.

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters

Follow

  • Fine Homebuilding

    Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X
    • LinkedIn
  • GBA Prime

    Get instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • YouTube
  • Old House Journal

    Learn how to restore, repair, update, and decorate your home.

    Subscribe Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X
  • Fine Homebuilding

    Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X
    • LinkedIn
  • GBA Prime

    Get instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • YouTube
  • Old House Journal

    Learn how to restore, repair, update, and decorate your home.

    Subscribe Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X

Membership & Magazine

  • Online Archive
  • Start Free Trial
  • Magazine Subscription
  • Magazine Renewal
  • Gift a Subscription
  • Customer Support
  • Privacy Preferences
  • About
  • Contact
  • Advertise
  • Careers
  • Terms of Use
  • Site Map
  • Do not sell or share my information
  • Privacy Policy
  • Accessibility
  • California Privacy Rights

© 2025 Active Interest Media. All rights reserved.

Fine Homebuilding receives a commission for items purchased through links on this site, including Amazon Associates and other affiliate advertising programs.

  • Home Group
  • Antique Trader
  • Arts & Crafts Homes
  • Bank Note Reporter
  • Cabin Life
  • Cuisine at Home
  • Fine Gardening
  • Fine Woodworking
  • Green Building Advisor
  • Garden Gate
  • Horticulture
  • Keep Craft Alive
  • Log Home Living
  • Military Trader/Vehicles
  • Numismatic News
  • Numismaster
  • Old Cars Weekly
  • Old House Journal
  • Period Homes
  • Popular Woodworking
  • Script
  • ShopNotes
  • Sports Collectors Digest
  • Threads
  • Timber Home Living
  • Traditional Building
  • Woodsmith
  • World Coin News
  • Writer's Digest
Active Interest Media logo
X
X
This is a dialog window which overlays the main content of the page. The modal window is a 'site map' of the most critical areas of the site. Pressing the Escape (ESC) button will close the modal and bring you back to where you were on the page.

Main Menu

  • How-To
  • Design
  • Tools & Materials
  • Video
  • Blogs
  • Forum
  • Project Guides
  • Reader Projects
  • Magazine
  • Members
  • FHB House

Podcasts

  • FHB Podcast
  • ProTalk

Webinars

  • Upcoming and On-Demand

Podcasts

  • FHB Podcast
  • ProTalk

Webinars

  • Upcoming and On-Demand

Popular Topics

  • Kitchens
  • Business
  • Bedrooms
  • Roofs
  • Architecture and Design
  • Green Building
  • Decks
  • Framing
  • Safety
  • Remodeling
  • Bathrooms
  • Windows
  • Tilework
  • Ceilings
  • HVAC

Magazine

  • Current Issue
  • Past Issues
  • Magazine Index
  • Subscribe
  • Online Archive
  • Author Guidelines

All Access

  • Member Home
  • Start Free Trial
  • Gift Membership

Online Learning

  • Courses
  • Project Guides
  • Reader Projects
  • Podcast

More

  • FHB Ambassadors
  • FHB House
  • Customer Support

Account

  • Log In
  • Join

Newsletter

Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters
See all newsletters

Follow

  • X
  • YouTube
  • instagram
  • facebook
  • pinterest
  • Tiktok

Join All Access

Become a member and get instant access to thousands of videos, how-tos, tool reviews, and design features.

Start Your Free Trial

Subscribe

FHB Magazine

Start your subscription today and save up to 70%

Subscribe

Enjoy unlimited access to Fine Homebuilding. Join Now

Already a member? Log in

We hope you’ve enjoyed your free articles. To keep reading, become a member today.

Get complete site access to expert advice, how-to videos, Code Check, and more, plus the print magazine.

Start your FREE trial

Already a member? Log in

Privacy Policy Update

We use cookies, pixels, script and other tracking technologies to analyze and improve our service, to improve and personalize content, and for advertising to you. We also share information about your use of our site with third-party social media, advertising and analytics partners. You can view our Privacy Policy here and our Terms of Use here.

Cookies

Analytics

These cookies help us track site metrics to improve our sites and provide a better user experience.

Advertising/Social Media

These cookies are used to serve advertisements aligned with your interests.

Essential

These cookies are required to provide basic functions like page navigation and access to secure areas of the website.

Delete My Data

Delete all cookies and associated data