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Homeowner had us add a 2″ thick granite top for 9’L kitchen island. Backside is oval shaped w/ 17″ overhang at midpoint. I know that granite should be supported if out over 12″. Island framework allows brackets at either midpoint or at 9 1/2″ overhang points R/L. Span between the latter pts. is 5′.
Owner wants to eliminate knee knocks by too many brackets installed. Have gotten two seperate opinions by vendors we use.
Any granite installers out there w/ comments for #,size, and best locations for brackets for this situation appreciated–thanks.
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I think corbels detract from the appearance of the counter top in some cases. Give the owner what he wants. Do this by coming up with an alternative: delete the 'kneeknockers'. What I do is cut a stopped groove in the backside of the stone. The groove is perpendicular to the cab and stopped about 2" short of the cap. I then epoxy in place some nonferrous bar stock. Try to eliminate bubbles as they form, sometimes I vibrate with a palm sander without sandpaper. The longer the barstock, the stronger the support at the overhang. Bridge the whole mess with fiberglas cloth in epoxy and sand smooth.
I cut the groove one of two ways. Two parallel saw kerfs to stock thickness plus 1/8". In a 2" slab, I would not cut more than 3/4" deep. Then, knockout the center piece with a cold chisel. Clean up the bottom of the groove with a 4" ginder with diamond blade. Another way to cut the groove is to make multiple passes with a straight fluted bit. You can also drycut the groove on a panel saw-type setup.
If a sink or appliance interferes with a fullwidth groove you can go to this option: cut a groove parallel and inset from the cap. Now, cut several grooves (12"oc) like mentioned above but stop short to clear the sink, etc. Lay in a piece of nonferrous stock which is thin enough to allow you to spring it into the curved groove. (Think of the joist system for a cantilevered deck and I think you'll begin to see what I'm talking about. The curved groove is what you lay your curved 'rimjoist' into. The short grooves are for your 'deckjoists'.) Caveat: if you go with the sink-in-the-way method DO NOT cut a groove parallel to the cab above the cab face as this will create a tensionally weak line, no matter how much epoxy.
The owner may balk at the cost of doing this, but if he's already paid for a 2" slab with a curved cap, he may like the idea. Total cost, sight unseen, around $400.
*RichWhat kind of nonferrous stock. I'm guessing stainless steel.Terry
*Terry, I purposely did not specify as one may have better access to one type or another. I guess I could use, for example, aluminum, but I haven't. You are correct, I use stainless. Mostly, it's because it's readily available to me and I have a large supply of the stock I commonly use. For what I proposed in my first post I use 1/2 x 2 bar. Otherwise, I use an assortment of stainless rod.I think if I were to use aluminum I would rough it up a bit so it would 'bite' with the epoxy.
*to rich: Thanks for idea we did not think of. Owner was afraid of cutting into cap at this time--personally ,I think it was the cost factor. We'll try your idea on next island slated for this month and have vendor do the cuts at shop to ease install.
*In thew "For what it's worth Dept," We were at the Atlanta Home Show this year, looking at granite countertops, etc. The Elberton, GA folks were there in force. For those not familiar w/ Elberton, it sits atop one of the largest "Deposits" in the world of granite - tens of miles long, miles wide and miles deep. One of the vendors was hawking 1/4" (actually 6 or 7 mm) thick granite from Italy that was backed by an epoxied layer of fiberglass. They had a length of the stuff across a pair of 2 X something or other, and invited us to stand in the middle to observe and experience the ability to withstand bending moment of the product. Amazing! I lied Rich's suggeation about laminating the countertop underside w/ FG. Wonder how much strength it would add to a 2" thick slab? But the bottom is the compressive surface, so what would it do for bending, anyway? And can someone not using the Italian's proprietary process get the same results? Seems to me any good redneck experienced w/ Bondo and duct tape should be able to do it! (That's a southern joke, for all you D...Yankees out there that never get south of the Bronx.)Don
*I have thought about this the last couple of days, now I need to know: why (or, how) was it allowed to let the owner dictate this part of the installation? Was it really just price? Did you job cost the extra work or just use my ballpark?Long time ago, I was bidding a complete kitch remodel. The owner wanted to save the cabs though. I admit they were worth saving, but he was afraid of damage to the cabs during tearout phase. In fact, he grew quite concerned. At first, I kinda' gave him a flippant answer, then when I realized the depth of his concern, I ran through the entire plan and method of how to protect the cabs, how I've never had a problem in the past, etc. Still not convinced, he started to change the project in ways that were focused on protecting the cabs. He ended up gutting the project to the point it in no way resembled the original. I told him I was still interested but I would like to have some latitude in how to proceed. On that one point we could not agree and it cancelled the job. I paid attention to the house as it was local and on the main street of our small town. Over the next five years I never saw any signs of work being done. (At that time, work was scarce so I was like a ravenous dog looking for work, even with the unusual customer.)
*You sayin' us yankees don't know how to use bondo and duct tape? Ha!
*Hey, Don, a Yankee is a yankee, there Damn when they come down here and stay.!
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Homeowner had us add a 2" thick granite top for 9'L kitchen island. Backside is oval shaped w/ 17" overhang at midpoint. I know that granite should be supported if out over 12". Island framework allows brackets at either midpoint or at 9 1/2" overhang points R/L. Span between the latter pts. is 5'.
Owner wants to eliminate knee knocks by too many brackets installed. Have gotten two seperate opinions by vendors we use.
Any granite installers out there w/ comments for #,size, and best locations for brackets for this situation appreciated--thanks.