Just starting on this roof job.
Rebuilding the overhangs on the ell,removing all the old small slates,20 oz. standing seam panels at the eaves,then new 10″ x 16″ North Country slates installed.
Salvaging the old slates for his future garage/studio.
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Looks nice, while your up there why dont ya slap a little paint on them claps!
Doug
Claps will all be coming off and Hardi claps put on by others!
Wow... slate roof and Hardi siding? Seems like a funky mix.
More funky would be to use vinyl.
Whats wrong with Hardi claps?
Hardi planks are too thin - the shadow line under them looks cheesy. Of course, I do use 'em - almost everything else about them is great.
Forrest
FWIW, I heard Hardie has a 5/4 plank in the works for apps like this. Anyone else heard this rumor? After having tried using their SUPER brittle corner boards though, I can't imagine that they would be too fun to work with...
I don't know about Hardie, but IIRC, AZEK just announced it's going to make a heavier stock (5/4) as well as 4x8 sheets of material for those that need it.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
I've been using their full sheets for a year or more now. If I remember right, they are something like 97" x 49 or 50"
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
To me it's a mis-match in finishes. The slate roof is the ultimate in organic, natural, luxury material. The Hardi is a workingman's synthetic every-piece-alike material with no personality, or worse it's the cedarmill stuff with fake grain. Yes, it will last a long time but I'd expect to see either clear cedar siding or shingles... same flavor as the roof, something to make the house say 'I got it and you don't'.
I'd use Hardi on my house, but it only has asphalt shingles on it.
The gentleman who owns this house is an archy with the biggest firm in our area.
It's his decision to use it ,not mine. The other description of cvg cedar and patterned red labels describes the home I live in-with slate roof too.
Also the Hardi work will be done by others-we're just doing the roof.
After a hold up on some mahogany trim we're back on this one.
1787 shows some of our standing seam copper panels in place with the prepped roof above.
1789 Panels in place with wooden cant strip below to kick up starter course and first slate shingle. System Rau tools for closing the first and second locks.
1790 close up of panels and cant strip.
1792 Soldered seam at top of panels.Grace will be used from this point up 3' for extra protection
1793 Torch used in this procedure.
1795 Soldering picture
Walter - quick question.Why do you cut and solder the top? If I were doing this detail, I'd roll the seams all the way and beat the tops over. Less work and no dependence on solder.Looks great - keep 'em coming.
What ever you do, don't flip the red switch on the dashboard, Gunner.
http://grantlogan.net/
I knew you'd ask that question.
You have to use a cant strip for the slate to lay properly-so I choose to put it under the panels.When you roll the tops of the seams all the way up it leaves a high spot for your starter slates to go over,so you have to cut them to go around it.
I know this is more work but it makes for a much cleaner,better laying starter course and subsequent start of the roof.
On archys I would do it just as you suggest. I've got Sieger snow guards to install yet so I really like those early courses to lay perfect.
I know some folfks put the cant on top of the panels,but I don't agree with that method.I also get a better bond with the Grace to the flat surface.
As I continue to add on here you'll see how clean and effective this method works,albeit at the cost of a little more labor.
Have a great Fest. Hope Gunner doesn't get you guys locked up permanently!
Knew you had a good reason. If you get a wild hair, come on down this weekend. Saturday night will be the big get together.
What ever you do, don't flip the red switch on the dashboard, Gunner.
http://grantlogan.net/
Hey Walter, looking good.
Thought I'd pass along a trick we learnt last yr. You don't need the first set of crimping clenchers, turn the secondary set around backwards..works just fine for that first lock. Then second roll as usual.
One less thing to tote around on the roof. We also smoothed the welds on the inside of the jaws so thet when using them backwards they didn't make a little pucker.
As it is, I prep all the pans for the dripedge fold and top fold lock, while Dale tabs them off. While he does the first seam lock , I clench the bottom and trim the standing seam plumb with a wrap around of the verticle part. By then he is on the second crimp and I am back to the next pan prep.
We did 6 square last thursday, actual time on the roof maybe 6 hours..but no valley or hip cutting thank god.
Cooled off some down here, but were hanging gutter, all the roof is done.
Be careful up there.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Enjoyning the finite of matter, in an infinite realm of possibilities...
Wow, nice work. At least the budget is right for your part. Did you make the copper, or do you order that? Can you post some close-up step photos of the seaming process so we can see those tools at work?
David,
I'll be putting on more panels tomorrow and will do just that-some closeups of the locks being closed.
I'll be putting more shots taken today on line later tonight of slate install start and snow guard install.
David,
here are some shots of the locks being closed on those 20 oz. copper panels.
I'll be putting more up later of the slate laying and snow retention system.
1811 closing the first lock.
1812 closing second lock.
1813 side view of second lock closure
More shots of panels and slate install with snow guards to retain some of the snow load.
1798 Grace installed over panels.Note homemade wooden bracket with copper strap.
1800 Starter course being installed.
1803 Marking out for recess for snow guard
1804 Cutting the recess in the slate
1805 Recess shown before guard install.
1801 Sieger snow guard in place.
1802 Close up of their Model C in bronze.Possibly the finest guard made.
1817 Several courses of slate laid with the guards in place.
1808 Antique Belden hammer showing upper nails holes punched from the backside.
Slate
If I ever hit it big I'm gonna fly you out here to put one of those roofs on my place!
I enjoy the pics, keep em coming.
Doug
Oh, I don't see me hitting it big so don't go packing your bags. <G>
Doug,
It's the thought that counts! Thanks very much- good to know some folks check out this thread.
Best regards, Walter
I know that there are going to be regional differences but what is the price tag on a job like that.
Just asking I have never priced slate or copper roofing before.
Great thread. Pretty cool to see the steps in a process I am unfamilar with.
There are a lot of variables in the price-removal of old slate to salvage,rebuild eaves,double layer of felt,20 oz.standing seam panels Sieger snow guards for snow retention,laying new slate on 150 year old boards-renailed of course.
I'm glad some folks enjoy seeing this procedure. Thank you. Walter
Don't thank me man, thank you for posting something out of the ordinary for this carpenter. Very interesting.
I haven't done copper or slate before, I have torn slate off to replace with compostion shingles. Keep up the good work.
Slateman and slateassistant are doing a great job on the roof of our home. Working with Walter is like stepping back and forth in slate time. The tried and true techniques of great slate generations past mixed with years of practical slate roofing experience in today's construction world are preparing the place for our harsh winter environment. I am pleased and honored to have him reviving the surface over our heads. For the LEED inclined, the salvage rate is looking like roughly 65% or ~20 squares, these "Beauties", as the Slateman calls the 6"x9" Brownville slate will be either stored for a future garage roof or sold to the highest bidder. Right now we are looking for a good low slope solution to the porch below, does anyone have any experience with Max Roofing imitation slate?
Charley
The tinning and strength risers look sweet on yer soldering. I still slobber excess Ruby juice and can't control the heat bead to make pretty.
You da man.
Are you using a Sievert torch or irons ? Hatchett tip or pyramid?
Or did I miss a photo with the recent upheaval in the threads?
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Enjoyning the finite of matter, in an infinite realm of possibilities...
Sphere ,
The set up I've got here is an ASCo (acetylene supply co.) torch head heating a chisel tipped iron.
I use paste flux,not Ruby red.It's easier to control for me.It's made by Laco Industries. With the right shaped tip the "zipper" is easy to master.I also sweat down the sides after lacing to smooth the edges to help cut down on erosion corrosion-the death sentence for copper after many years.
Thanks for the kind words.
Grant and Gunner in the slammer yet?
Cool news. I have a tip that heats fast ( and burns up) and Dale has a heavy chisel tip ( slow to heat but holds longer)...I saw the red hose in the pics and thought acetylene...but I am new to this stuff, I use propane.
I hate Ruby ..I see Grant uses paste in the shop, and I wonder why I can't field use it.
Thanks...yer giving me thought.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Enjoyning the finite of matter, in an infinite realm of possibilities...
You're right-the smaller tip tends to burn up faster. You need lots of heat at the solder point,so bigger tip is better in most cases. Inside a lined gutter might be the exception.
Paste has some advantages in the field I think-doesn't spill,stays a little better on a pitched roof. Try some and make up your own mind which suits you better.
Acetylene puts out more heat too. You can swap out "B" tanks at any of the gas supply places.
Super work - my wife and I love the guards!
Not much slate down here - we can only dream.
Forrest
I'll take that as a big compliment from the guy with the best thread going on the board at this time! I've got help with my job and you're doing it solo.
Those Sieger guards are a lovely item I think and work supubly retaining snow from cascading down to injure pedestrians,plantings,even structures below.
I love your thread.
This online sharing of work and techniques is really helpful and enjoyable.
We've started on the other side of the ell.
How does this roof stand now? Got 'er done or what? Where's our updated pics?
jt8
"Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success." --Albert Schweitzer
John.
Well the roof project is on hold for awhile.I had a total hip replacement on Mar. 1 of this year,and all went well at first.I was working again after a months time and felt great.
In late May I was experiencing a lot of muscle pain even though the joint looked fine under x-rays.Went to P.T. for awhile and it seemed to improve some,but never seemed as good as it did at 8 weeks out.
3 weeks ago I started to develop a bunch on my outer hip under one of the incisions from the surgery.Went back to the surgeon and it was discovered I had an orious staph infection,at the joint too.
Last Wed. I went back in for surgery to clean the joint parts and be treated with IV antibiotics for the next six weeks. I'm wearing a fanny pack which houses the pump and medication-dispensed every 4 hours for an hour.
Sounds like I won't be roofing again until late Oct. so I guess I won't be posting any photos until then.
I appreciate the interest in seeing more photos-thank you much.
Walter
Very sorry to hear about your complications. Get well soon!
"It's always better to have regrets for things you've done than for things you wish you had done..........."
IC thanks for the kind thoughts.
I'm trying to remain positive-my wife claims one heals better with a good outlook.
Walter
Sorry to hear about the surgery complications. Hope you get healed up quickly.
On the bright side... You'll finally be able to catch up on your BT reading!
;)
jt8
"Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success." --Albert Schweitzer
Thats what I'm doing as we cyber-speak!
Damn, Walter. I'm sorry to hear that, but I suspect you'll be back at it soon. Keep us posted.
"Let's go to Memphis in the meantime, baby" - John Hiatt.
http://grantlogan.net/
Grant,
Thanks for the wishes.I've got to be a little careful wearing an expensive pump and bag of IV fluids attached to a "pick line" on my arm.
Most clients will be patient and wait-knowing the work they'll get instead of rolling the dice with a big outfit.
Tell Sphere to start posting some barrel dormer pics-dammit.If I can't work at least I can drool.
Walter
that's a drag...sorry to hear about the side lining...
get better...
BTW there's no such thing as "catch up" on the readin' on BT..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Thanks! But at least it's a diversion I don't have to feel guilty about while I'm recovering.
I don't have to feel guilty about while I'm recovering.
the man covers that too...
no such thing as guilt and BT...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
After healing up from my second hip surgery I'm back at this project-trying to wrap up the ell before we get some serious Winter.
Installing 20 oz. copper valley stock and slating just the ell side-drying in the house side till we're prepped there.
The main house will have standing seam panels to cover the wooden gutter and Sieger snow guards too.
I cut my valley slates on the face side for less turbulence as the water flows over them-hence less erosion corrosion making the valley metal last longer.
Walter - that's a nice shot of how to deal with a valley that half lands on another roof plane. Guess, it's still a regional thing, but you solder a lot of things I would lock.http://logancustomcopper.com
http://grantlogan.net/
Halelujah, everybody say cheese
Merry Christmas from the family
grant.. is that so they can slip ? ( expand / contract ? )
nice detail , huh ?
View Image
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Grant,
In this case the second sheet above the apron wasn't tall enough to reach completely under the valley area-so the lap and rivetts were used. That second sheet had to be turned up the wall 2" to get behind some huge frieze board configuration and up under the gutter terminous-so I chose to not fight a 3rd alignment while working alone.
I guess I've shown a lot of lapped and soldered shots lately.
Walter
Grant,
Here's some shots of the other side of the "ell" where it meets the main house.
I couldn't easily get behind the frieze/window trim on this side so I'll counterflash this side.I did lock my first and second sheet together,but because of North side/no sun to melt snow and ice ,I'll still solder this horizontal seam.
The main roof trim is gone so I'll leave my valley long and lock onto the trim in the Spring.
This side had part open/part closed valley construction,but the new will have a tapered open valley on both sides,with the same line of valley reveal extending down to the start of the ell roof.
Last shots of drying in the second side with 20 oz. copper valleys.
Awe Crap..that is not fun.
Hang in there and feel positivly well rooted for.
Thanks again for the ripper, it had much use already.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
" If ya plan to face tomorrow, do it soon"
Duane,
Thanks for the sentiments.I'll be back at it soon enough,why I'm just a muscle skun on over a bone.
Glad the ripper works for you.My favorite ones I own are all Pexto's-of the 40 or so I have.
Check my message to Grant i.e. where the he** are the dormer pics.
Best regards, WAlter
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=78362.1
As usual, we took a few twisted turns BSing to each other.
Rain out last two days,I hope for clearing and get back and finish.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
" If ya plan to face tomorrow, do it soon"
Sorry about the complication.
Heal well and quickly.
Forrest
Forrest
Keep more pics coming so I don't get bored.You and wnyguy have some neat work going.
Thanks,WAlter
Walter
Well hurry up and get well dammit! I need to see the progress on this job. Next thing you know McDesign will go down and all my fun will be over. :)
Doug
Aughhhhhhhh!
I'm being eaten by spiders!
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=78247.104
Forrest - building door casing in the shop
Forrest has agreed to do double shifts to make up for my lack of production.Now he'll do the work of four men instead of the usual two!
Forrest has agreed to do double shifts to make up for my lack of production.
As well it should be! When one man goes down another pics up the slack and moves forward.
Hope you mend fast, I know stuck at home reading all this "educational stuff" can make ya go mad fairly quick.
Doug
Hope you recover swiftly and completely. Sorry you had complications.
Thank you for the kind words. Walter
showing upper nails holes punched from the backside.
Those holes look very clean. I would have expected them to spall like a window shot with a BB gun.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Slate's a great material to use.After a few weeks cutting and punching becomes second nature.
If he can't I sure can, we have the same crimpers. As an aside, Grant makes all of our pans outta flat stock, not roll stock.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Enjoyning the finite of matter, in an infinite realm of possibilities...
Doesn't sound funky to me. Both are among the longest lasting materials that could be chosen. A real lifetime job.
Wow, I wondered what Santa did in the off season. Nice roof.
jt8
"A tree is known by its fruit; a man by his deeds. A good deed is never lost; he who sows courtesy reaps friendship, and he who plants kindness gathers love." -- Saint Basil
Fantastic thread. Thanks for putting it up.
"It's always better to have regrets for things you've done than for things you wish you had done..........."ponytl
Thanks IC! I hoped some folks might enjoy seeing progress on a new slate install on an elegant older home.