Replies

1. 
   tkh | Jun 09, 2004 05:11am | #1

   30+ years in construction, though management now, I'll always be a carpenter, I'm with you and the wood.

   Go with the concrete patio though. Loose pea gravel gets kicked around. You can stain, imprint patterns, expose aggregate, and set in stones with concrete. You don't need to worry about rodents nesting or weeds growing between joists. Cleaning concrete is a lot easier than wood and it never needs paint or sealing. If you have a nice backyard, personally, I'd want the traffic and visuals to flow, so no stone walls for me. Use movable planters, flower pots, furniture, etc to create less permanent and view blocking "walls".

   If you feel you can't handle the concrete pour, trade services with a concrete buddy.

   "A contented man enjoys the scenery of a detour"

   
   

   ---

   Edited 6/8/2004 10:12 pm ET by TKH

1. 
   pdelvis | Jun 09, 2004 06:19am | #2

   Thanks for the thoughts. To be honest it hadn't occured to me to do some sort of finished concrete--stamped, stained etc.  I had been picturing a standard concrete slab and it wasn't all that exciting. Let me run it by a mason pal and see what he thinks--and see if he can give me a day or two.  We have some mice in that section of the foundation but the snakes usually keep them in check!  And I'm fairly certain that a deck 2' off the ground would be quite appealing to our local skunks.  again, thanks.

1. 
   VaTom | Jun 09, 2004 03:21pm | #3

   I had been picturing a standard concrete slab and it wasn't all that exciting.

   Exposed aggregate.  Then the surface looks like a field of small river rocks.  More graceful if the edges curve. 

   Mine's 50' across the front, continuing 20' around the corner, a little over 1k sq ft.  Formed by myself one short day.  Poured the next with 4 of us, none professional, only one had any experience.  Don't forget the control joints and drainage.  We screeded, floated, let it set up, and used broom and water to expose the aggregate. 

   Power washed it this year for the first maintenance in 10 yrs, maybe a couple of years overdue.  Material was around $1k.    PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!

1. 
   reganva | Jun 09, 2004 05:04pm | #4

   A few neighbors around here are doing slate patios (or is it called blue stone?) - beautiful.  Like the one on the cover of FHB two issues ago.

2. 
   csnow | Jun 09, 2004 05:28pm | #5

   Big fan of the stamped stuff.  No cracks to fill with weeds, or shifting pavers.

   Looks great, and reasonable too.

   Wood decks without roofs just do not hold up for long.  They start looking ratty in a very few years.

   Some disadvantages to concrete are heat and cold retention (think giant radiator), hard on the feet, and more broken glassware at parties and such.

3. 
   WayneL5 | Jun 10, 2004 01:10am | #6

   I read an article about pressure treated wood that said the average deck is torn off after 9 years.  They didn't give a breakdown of the reasons, however, my experience is that decks don't last all that long.  Pressure treating protects wood from rot, but not from weathering.  If it were me, I'd go with a patio.

   Besides the concrete alternatives mentioned, you could also do pavers.  Cementitious pavers are less expensive than genuine fired clay, but I like the look of real clay pavers.  Pine Hall Brick is a really good brand.  Pavers don't require the cutting that natural stone would involve.

   I'm sure if you've been a carpenter all those years you could do a patio well.  The work is physically hard, but is more based on knowledge of proper methods and ability to be fussy than on dexterity or talent.

   Proper base is critical, along with compaction.  You can get a dead flat (but sloped ¼" per foot, not level) patio by screeding the base and the stone dust between the base and the pavers with a long board on some 3/4" or 1/2" steel pipes.  Anyway, if you would like more details there are resources, web sites, or I can describe the process in more detail.

1. 
   pdelvis | Jun 10, 2004 06:25am | #8

   All, Thanks for the suggestions---looks like I'm going with something other then wood.  Need to decide between concrete with a finish, brick, pavers, or some thing else.  Here in Upstate NY we have some great local blue stone that you can buy direct from the quarry.  Also really like the idea of forming one day and pouring the next--used to be that I had more time then money so my labor for my own projects was no big deal.  These days it seems like we are slowly getting ahead in money but have no time.  Waynel you suggested a few web sites that may have some guidance on getting the bed right for whatever is being laid. Can you direct me?    The goal will be to do this early in the summer so we can enjoy it--

1. 
   Mongo | Jun 10, 2004 08:26am | #9

   I did bluestone for a 2-tier patio on the back of my house. Upper is about 1000 sq ft, and the lower, separated by an 18" high retaining wall, is about 300 sq ft.

   Laid it up dry. Prepped the subsoil base, then poured a perimeter footing to allow me to mortar down the edge pieces. After removing the forms, brought in stonedust and spread and compacted that to the height of the perimeter footing. Mortared down the perimeter (12" by 36" pieces, 2" thick), then infilled by dry-laying four different sized stones in a pattern. Filled in the space between the stones with packed stonedust, and planted creeping thyme in some of the cracks.

   Looks bueno, and with the good draining base it hasn't moved a bit despite the New England winters. I think I did it in '97 or '98.

   Have 1600 sqft being delivered in three weeks, but that's going to be mortared down around the pool. Kind of like having a baby. You forget the pain and think "sure, I'll do it again...".

   Old thread with pics: http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=23395.11

2. 
   WayneL5 | Jun 10, 2004 04:22pm | #10

   Sure.  Here's one very thorough site.  It's from the UK, so diminsions are metric.  http://www.pavingexpert.com/blocks2.htm

   One brick manufacturer is Pine Hall Brick, http://www.pinehallbrick.com.  They have distributors in New York, both Rochester and Syracuse, and possibly others.  They are not a low-end product.

   Cementitious pavers can be found all over.

4. 
   WHI | Jun 10, 2004 01:26am | #7

   Ever think of brick with 6x6 timbers for a border? No concrete neede. No shifting and can be done by yourself.