Replies

1. 
   Jonathan_Bush | Mar 03, 2002 08:30pm | #1

   *
   Dave,
   You don't need to worry about the sewer gas in the vent pipe, but the correct way to fix this is to fix this is to run a ground wire back to the electric panel. The danger in grounding to plumbing is the with the use of PVC ect. the ground path may be interrupted and the GFI would fail to work.

   Also, is the old wire sized to handle the loads inposed in a modern bath?

   jb

1. 
   Randy_Rogers | Mar 04, 2002 05:17am | #2

   *'GFCI will fail to work if there is no ground.' Am I paraphrasing that portion of reply #1 correctly? If so, I respectfully disagree with the statement.Randy

1. 
   Dave_Otto | Mar 05, 2002 05:23am | #3

   *The old wire is 14 gauge. The load on the wiring will be two 60 watt light bulbs and one GFI. However, this is an old house and there are several receptacles on the floor that are on the same circuit.I did mention to the homeowner about the addition of PVC to the plumbing/venting system and how it would affect grounding.As for Randy's reply:I spoke to an electrician about the need to ground the GFI - he told me that the GFI protects the neutral - an ungrounded GFI will still protect. But he said that it's better to ground it

1. 
   Brian_Smith | Mar 05, 2002 05:33am | #4

   *i was under the impression that in kichens lights were supposed to be on a separate circuit from receptacles and thought it was the same for bathrooms. guess i'm wrong on that, or you are. any feedback here?

1. 
   Bill_Hartmann | Mar 05, 2002 07:42am | #5

   *BrianThe current code is that you can use 1 20 amp feed for the outlets in ALL the bathrooms. Or you can use one 20 amp feed for both the outlets and lights in ONE bathroom.But that is current code. This is for an 85 year old home. It really depends on how much work is being done and the interpretations of the AHJ as to how much work has to be done.

2. 
   Brian_Smith | Mar 05, 2002 08:30am | #6

   *thanks, bill.i was researching this before returning here. 1999 nec code change (my absence from the field showed up here).pertinent link:http://www.jlconline.com/cgi-bin/jlconline.storefront/3c8455a40017a90c271b401e1d29060e/UserTemplate/82?s=3c8455a40017a90c271b401e1d29060e&c=b48898f6009a63192ceed6bfd3b8e212&p=1bill. is lighting allowed to be shared with receptacles in kitchens? i found no changes myself.so, david...did you remove old walls? is the bathroom circuit "shared" or "dedicated"?brian

3. 
   Bill_Hartmann | Mar 05, 2002 05:55pm | #7

   *BrianI have not really searched the code, but AFAIK you still can not have the kitchen lighting on the 2 required aplliance circuits. But if you have more than the required 2 I think that it can be shared with one of them.

4. 
   Dave_Otto | Mar 07, 2002 07:49am | #8

   *I removed the plaster and lath from the wall where the medicine cabinet, new lights, and GFI will be. The house has a panel with breakers and there is a sub panel for the third floor. The circuit which I'm dealing with has the bathroom, the light for the third floor bathroom, and several receptacles (located on both the third floor and second floor). The third floor is a converted attic. I can understand that back in the day, electrical use was much less than today, but ever time I uncover knob and tube spliced heavily taped inside a wall, I shutter.Thanks guys for your info

5. 
   Brian_Smith | Mar 07, 2002 08:30am | #9

   *okay...from what's been posted on this thread, you are not allowed to wire the GFCI receptacle and lights in your bathroom on the same circuit since it's shared with lighting in another bathroom ("shared", not a circuit "dedicated" to this bathroom.it's a pane :-) now that we're talking K&T and mixed lighting + receptacles in various rooms on one circuit, maybe you should consider rewiring. keep the existing circuit breaker for fixtures/receptacles outside this bathroom (i would get rid of the K&T though), pull the K&T and replace with 12 ga. for this bathroom's new circuit along with a new 20A breaker in your panel, retaining as much balance in the panel as is possible. now your up to code and safer.any time i rewired, i squeezed some dishsoap into the conduit.just my 3 cents. brian

6. 
   4Lorn | Mar 08, 2002 11:53am | #10

   *There are several reasons not to hook any grounds to any plumbing other than one central ground point near the plumbings entrance to the house:1) With the use of plastics the pipes may not be grounded.2) The biggest reason. Dead plumbers tend to smell after a few days and are of questionable decorative value. It can be extremely difficult to coordinate a dead plumber into any decorative scheme. This would be much easier if plumbers would just dress better.If a plumber, or DIY, was to take apart a pipe carrying a current they very could become part of that circuit and receive a dangerous shock. This would likely happen with wet hands and be a most unwelcome, and possibly fatal, supprise. The only electrical connection/s to plumbing should be a central ground point and/or the water heater. Check with your building dept.