anyone had an experience with PC framing nailer and chronic double firing.
I just started on a new crew and we have been using two PC nailers. last week a buddy took a .148 3 1/4″ through his left hand after the gun double fired. I have done a lot of framing and never have experienced guns as unsafe- as prone to double firing- as the PCs. I know that there are adjustments to make but this gun was only two weeks old and had already started double firing like the older gun. Feedback appreciated
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Replies
We had the same problem with a PC stick framing nailer. Didn't put a nail in my hand but came close! In our case it was due to an inadequate air supply when using long hoses. We were using a 120psi compressor, 6mm hose, 120ft long. First nail would go OK and maybe the second but then the double nail. A PC framing nailer needs 120psi when using 3 1/2in nails. What seems to happen is the gun gets pushed up the nail, 'cos the air pressure was too low to drive the nail home, and bounces onto the timber again inserting a second nail, usually by now, at a higher pressure, an inch away from the first. The compressor will only give 120psi when fully charged and because the airline is after the regulator, the hose will pulse the air up and down the line from the gun to the regulator. If you fire the gun at a low point on this pulse cycle you can be down to 70-80psi.
We sorted it by using a 150psi compressor, 10mm hose, connected to the unregulated port. (this means the line is running at 150psi) and use a line regulator set at 120psi, 15ft before the gun - Result no more double nails.
Hope our experience helps,
Ralph
You'd get better results by using 1/4" or 3/8" hoses, not that metric crap. Those guns are made in Tennessee USA, and they like things the 'mericun way, Bubba :)
All seriousness aside, I wonder which of those three adjustments made the most difference. The bigger hose provided more cfm, not more pressure. The higher pressure compressor probably helped. And I think the hose-end regulator helped to control flucuations.
Sounds like the gun is bouncing after the first "shot". PC guns are on the light side (7lbs). My Duofast is heavy (9+lbs) but has yet to double fire. My PC staple gun has to be held tight to stop this and its very light. Your air line set up is a little light. Add 1/2" or bigger for the first 100' and then 1/4" for the last 25' as important as pressure is, flow is right up there. Framing nailers use large amounts of air each time they fire and small hoses hold them back. AND keep your hands and feet 6"+ away from the firing end!
thanks for the info on the pc framer. sounds like you figured it out. the day of the accident we went to a 3/8" hose aftr a 1/2 incher failed. Wehave a large compressor but boy, after fifteen years of using paslode and Sencos I think that the PC ought to have some sortof recall on their guns. My buddy has yet to get the word from the hand specialist, and he did manage to miss the bones, but it could have been a career ender-- I won't be soon forgeting the sight of him holdng out his had with about 1/8" of the 3 1/2" nail showing. someone needs to step up and get PC to design a safer gun.
You are using the right nails, right?
I have the same problems with the PC framing nailer. I use a 120psi compressor with 1/4' hose and never more than 100' of hose--usually 50'. Maybe a bigger compressor would help, as has been suggested, but I finally broke down and bought a Senco framing nailer and the problem is fixed. I have a couple of other PC finish nailers that work great so I am not down on Porter Cable. It just seems that the framing nailer is a little unpredictable. I always wondered if I was the only one who had a double firing nailer. Now I know.
one word -SENCO- nuff said stay well bear
I too have a PC double firing issue. Have resorted to holding the trigger and aiming where I want to fire the nail about 2 inches above the target - then... punch the gun at the target...
...no double nailing here. I think what I'm doing is making the gun have more force behind my firing it and thus keeping it from bouncing. I'm not sure that the added air pressure helps because the head of my nail is already getting buried in the timber up to about an 8th of an inch.
But the target punching idea doesn't always work because sometimes I need to get a certain angle or tight spot.
I think the volume of air that the compressor is making available is probably key. This PC gun is my first owned. On job sites with an associate, I've had much better firing with his Bostich.
I'm going to try the volume thing and I'll let you know.
PatchEFogg
I have a FR350 framer.....now I don't use it everyday as it would get used by a framing crew but I had the trigger changed to single shot. No problems, no playing with the compressor etc. Now I'm not nailing sheathing or anything so it doesn't bother me to pull the trigger.
SJ
Know a little about alot and alot about little.
Like most, I leave the reading of instruction manuals for when things don't work right... You say you "had" the trigger changed. Was this done by a repair shop of some kind or simply an adjustment on the gun itself that you did?
I guess I should read the manual. The single fire mode is certainly a solution.
Edited 6/24/2002 2:52:54 PM ET by PatchEFogg
There is a simple trigger change (my single shot is a red trigger...bump is black). I have heard it is easy to do...mine was done for me....I was having something else serviced and asked them to modify the gun for me. The parts are short money if they charge you.
Call PC and they should be able to send you the kit or at least clarify what it is.
SJ
Know a little about alot and alot about little.
PatchEFogg,
Have a FR350 and had the same double firing problem. Had the trigger switched to the single fire trigger and I feel much safer now. Call Porter Cable, the trigger is free. They will require the serial number of the gun (so they dont give out extra trigger , I suppose) and will ship it in the mail.
That 3.25 galvanized I took into the joint of my middle finger convinced me! Fortunately myhand was away juust far enough that it went in until it hit the bone, and caused a severe sprain rather than shattering the bones. I was lucky. Take Care.
Thanks, I'll call PC and get the trigger.
Makes me wonder why they don't ship both or at least the more safe trigger.
Sometimes I think weekend warriors take safety more seriously as we in the trade "know what we're doing" and... ahgh! safety gloves; eye protection; ear/gun muffs; resporators; protective clothing;...
...they're all for wooses! right!?! (except knee pads - they're priceless)
You know, its usually right after I tell someone, "hey, I've been doing this a long time..." that I screw something up or give myself a good utility knife cut or some other idiotic no-brainer thing goes wrong.
I agree that PC should address this issue.
hey has anyone tried the new Paslode nailers? I tried their finish nailer with the battery and charge devise (no air hose needed). It also double fired on me on the first try but after that I simply applied a bit more preasure and it worked like a charm after that. A nice product. I did some work for ITW Brands (the parent company who markets DuoFast and Paslode out of Chicago) They kinda pissed me off with their business practices - spun my wheels and didn't buy my work - but they have nice tools.
PatchEFogg
I have a PC 350MAG. I took a 3.25" .131 in the left hand pointer finger from a double fire. I stood there with this nail stuck in my finger...stunned...IT happened to ME. Pulled it out, a little ice and a band aid, and back to work.
I put in the red trigger now...but I still get double fires from time to time. I'm quite certain it is bouncing, even with the single pull trigger.
Personally, I feel much safer running my Husy 371XP with 24" bar...
Although I don't own a PC framing nailer my Sencos will occasionally double fire when for some dumb reason I'm still holding downward pressure and the recoil backs the nailer away from the work just enough to reset the nose. The residual downward pressure will depress the nose and it will fire again. All this happens in an instant. A supple wrist movement to go with the recoil by bouncing the nose will avoid most double firing. Sometimes the nailer will doublefire when nailing in a tight spot where the back of the nailer bounces off an object on the recoil causing the nose to depress again. Neither of the situations are the fault of the nailer. Sometimes the spring in the nose will be weak and the result will be a hair trigger nose. A strong spring will require more pressure to fire so the tendency to double fire will be greater.
I think you just have to get used to the feel of the nailer. I treat nailers just like a gun and always keep my hands out of the line of fire. Double fires are especially dangerous because the second nail often strikes the first and will ricochet in an unpredictable direction. Most of the time the nail will sink proud and next to the first or curl up and jam the nose of the nailer.
I actually prefer all my nailers to be set for single fire. For one thing it is a lot safer. It is a little slower but even when nailing shear or subflooring I find it worth it to be able to place each nail exactly where I want it. With the trigger set to bounce then accuracy diminishes and you have a chance of double fire.
Mike
I have the FR350, called the factory and the new trigger arrived in 2-3 days, took all of 2 minutes (maybe less) to install it. If you can clear a jam, you can change the trigger.
I concur with this advice. I'm pretty locked into Senco because they just keep on trucking. Getting the feel of the gun is important. When I put a framing gun in the hand of a novice, I can expect some double taps in the beginning until the guy gets used to the gun. I always forewarn and keep my eye on them until they get the hang of it.
I returned mine after one day of use. Way too many double fires. Spent $100 more for the Senco and never looked back.
Hey shred,
My pc clipped head nailer double fires from time to time for various reasons, either I am in an awkward position or it just bounces or something like that. What I am wondering is why your buddy had his hand close enough for it to be landed on by the nailer or otherwise struck by the nail? Now I don't use my nailer every day but I do follow some basic safety rules: Wear safety glasses, watch where you put your hands, dont nail in the direction of people because of the danger of a ricochet, things like that. My nailer is equiped with a bounce trigger and I often alter the method of triggering the gun based on my position, or the material I am nailing, it is not always safe or productive to bounce nail, or vice versa. I have noticed my gun often leaves the nail proud of the wood when fired on the low pressure cycle depending on the line pressure.
I agree with the bear, I wish I would have bought a Senco too.
C
yeah,
so the ironic part is that this guy is the saftey nut. he' the one who has always got the hard hat on and is the ring leader for the wekly safety meeting. Other tough part was that we were baloon framing a shear wall and he had his hand about eighteen inches away from the gun when he fired.
Senco hands down are the best guns made, now the can of worms are officially opened. senco's pluses- 1) uni-body/ housing -strength-
2) overall construction is above average as far materials , and the parts worker friendly to replace on the job . minimal amount of parts to remove to replace. i guess that little run was
21/2
3) the new generation of senco trim guns are oiless, my older senco framer is not but after 13 yrs. is the first one i grab, its heavy though. the new one's are lighter, shorter, and just as powerful. the trimmer is the most powerful i've ever used to date, with less kick and noise(alot less). duofast runs a tight second, and all you bostitchtonians its not a bad gun, and the nails and parts are readlly available especially here in the northeast . my cousin works at the plant in rhode island, they hand out the guns free if you buy enough nails. they seem to loose there power quicker than the senco. and that i feel is directly attributed to the gasket break down from the oil you use. its important to use the oil they specify. and quite simply just dont take the big drop like senco. the body is just dosent have the "integrity" that the senco has.
go out and get the feel of a senco, use it , and you'll will see what i mean save your pennies. it's worth it. cheers the bear