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gutters on building with metal roof

townsend | Posted in General Discussion on April 4, 2008 12:05pm

I am planning on having a standing seam metal roof installed on a summer house in Maine this spring.  The roof has an 11/12 pitch and has had asphalt shingles.  I was planning on replacing the gutters which help greatly with shedding the water away from the entrance as well as the rest of the building which is built on stacked stones and posts.

My builder told me that most people do not use gutters with a metal roof because when the snow slides off the roof, it will take the gutters with it.

Do you have any knowledge or experience with this situation?  Is there a solution that anyone can recommend?

Thanks,  Allen

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Replies

  1. frenchy | Apr 04, 2008 12:10am | #1

    Townsend. 

      It's mainly a factor of the strength of the gutter system..Few gutters will have thwe strength required to withstand the ineveitable snow slides..  Classic gutters on the other hand can sell you gutters that A fat 285 pound guy can do chin ups on but the price will shock you.

  2. Jason99 | Apr 04, 2008 12:15am | #2

    I put steel roofing on most of the houses I build and always put on gutters.  We don't however get snow, ever.   I have noticed in the trade journals plastic snow and ice baffles to prevent issues like that.

  3. robinpillars | Apr 04, 2008 12:18am | #3

    Around here that is the case for sure, but there are some cases where gutters are unavoidable.  Not using a metal roof is the generally the easiest solution.  Snowfences are the other option.  The snowfences theoretically keep the ice/snow from sliding off the roof and taking the gutters out.  They also help the ice/snow falling off the roof from taking other things out (like people, cars, decks...) and in many cases are required by code here.  This typically works if the snow and ice don’t pull the snowfences off too (this can be a major issue, and a major expense if engineers or lawyers are involved).  For standing seam there are some pretty good options out there.  S-5 appears to be the best system currently.  I think they have a web-site, but if not Alpine Snowguards is the distributor around here and they do have a good website. 

    I have worked with S-5 products on both Berridge and Garland standing seam roofs recently.  Both are good companies.  I have been pretty impressed with Garland's service and product though. 

    I have seen architects recommend tipping the gutters down, or positioning them lower to allow the falling ice/snow to miss them.  Do not do that.  If you do the water misses the gutters too. 

    Hope that gives you a start.  I'd be interested to hear some other ideas, and can provide more input.  I am in the process of putting $75k worth of snowfence, $75k worth of heat trace and $45k worth of gutters on a 15,000 SF Berridge roof on one of my projects right now. 

    Rob

     

  4. DanH | Apr 04, 2008 12:27am | #4

    If you're trying to keep water away from the entrance you don't want 500 pounds of snow sliding down on someone either. Gizmos should be installed to keep the snow from sliding off.

    What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the will to find out, which is the exact opposite. --Bertrand Russell
    1. townsend | Apr 04, 2008 12:52am | #5

      Dan,

      That makes sense, but we are not there when the snow is.  We come back in the spring when the snow is gone.   It is a summer place.

      1. Piffin | Apr 04, 2008 01:13am | #7

        The gizmos dan mentions are called ice gaurds or snow blocks. 

         

        Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

        1. townsend | Apr 04, 2008 01:30am | #9

          It was not clear in my first message that this is a summer place, and we are not there in the winter.  A large part of the reason for using a standing seam metal roof is that it sheds snow, so we should not have to worry about roof collapse.  So, my question is not so much about how to protect us from snow sliding off, but how to keep the gutters on so that they can help with the water in the summer.

          Thanks for all of your thoughts.

          Allen

          1. townsend | Apr 04, 2008 01:44am | #10

            Has anyone used something like "Gutter Helmet" with a metal roof?  If you are familiar with this product, it uses a curved surface to let the water follow the surface and go into a slot while it lets the leaves fall off the top. 

            That product is not available in central Maine, or for metal roofs, but perhaps someone has adapted the idea to this application.

            Allen

          2. theslateman | Apr 04, 2008 01:49am | #12

            Townsend,

            There is someone advertising in the Bangor Daily that does gutter helmet.

            It's in the classifieds under Business Services Directory.

            Where abouts are you building  -- coastal ??

          3. townsend | Apr 04, 2008 02:00am | #13

            We are building in Embden, which is inland and roughly an hour and a half from Bangor.  I will look for the advertisement.  A similar self contained product is "leaf guard".  I think there are also more flavors out there.

            Thanks,

            Allen

          4. mike_maines | Apr 06, 2008 06:25pm | #25

            Are you building on Embden Pond?  My cousins used to have a place there.  Supposedly the pond was the inspiration for "On Golden Pond," and my cousins' place was called "On Embden Pond."

            Anyway, keep the gutters below the plane of the roof or, better yet, let the rain fall and use a French drain at grade to take care of the water.

          5. townsend | Apr 08, 2008 03:01am | #26

            Mike,

            Yes, the place is on Embden Pond.

            We have decided to try and avoid gutters initially, and see it that is acceptable.  We will try to improve the run off.

             

            Thanks for all of the notes and suggestions. 

             

            Allen

          6. DanH | Apr 04, 2008 01:45am | #11

            Take the gutters off in the winter?
            What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the will to find out, which is the exact opposite. --Bertrand Russell

          7. townsend | Apr 04, 2008 02:03am | #14

            I expect this works, but I am trying to make this a place that I like to go to.

          8. DanH | Apr 04, 2008 02:27am | #15

            Yeah, folks always come up with some obscure objection to the obvious answer.
            What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the will to find out, which is the exact opposite. --Bertrand Russell

          9. robinpillars | Apr 04, 2008 04:48pm | #16

            I am pretty much on the same page as Dan.  I think removing gutters or snowfences/snow/iceguards are the best solutions. 

            Metal roofs in snow-country take a lot of consideration.  They are a great product, but falling snow and ice can be amazingly destructive.  Aside from the obvious danger to people you also have to consider anything else that is in the ice fall zone.  I have seen falling ice rip decks off of houses, crash through and rip off deck rails, crash through decks (decking, and joists), crash through lower roofs and crush framing and crush cars (litterally flat), break windows and rip gas and electric meters off of houses (should be under gables) and cause fires and explosions.  Snowfence/iceguards are required somewhere on almost every job I've been involved in. 

            Roof collapse is a valid concern, but if you are worried about that add structre, there is no guarantee that metal roofs will slide.  The piece of mind is well worth the extra framing (I'm not sure if this is a renovation or new construction).  I have worked on 5 projects in the past few years that the roofs were framed w/ 2x4's 24" o.c. that stood for 100+ years, and we average 275" of snow anually. 

            Edited 4/4/2008 9:49 am by robinpillars

          10. MFournier | Apr 04, 2008 09:41pm | #17

            No one ever goes near the house in winter at all or when there is snow on it? No One Ever? In Maine?
            I guess you go there for THE 2 weeks of summer? LOLSeriously I think the advice given here is good.
            A steep roof with metal roofing in snow country should get snow guards just because you own it now and only go there in the summer it does not mean you forget about putting on a feature it should have you never know you may sell the house someday.
            Snow sliding off a steep roof has a lot of force
            For you the issue is only the gutters getting pulled off but should that snow fall on someone even someone trespassing on your property in the winter you could get sued.But if you insist then you may just want to put a diverter over the door and no gutters (as long as the rain water run off does not build up around the foundation flooding your basement.) Personally I like to use gutters and store the rain water and use it to water lawns and gardens. Instead of having excess water during rain storms and then not enough during a dry summer. Also if gutters are mounted low enough (based on pitch of roof) the snow should slide off out past the gutter and not rip it off if they are up high close to the lip on a steep roof they will get ripped off all the time (even a strong gutter it will just pull off the wood it is screwed to) Some reading
            http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/how-to/articles/designing-roofs-to-handle-snow.aspx?LangType=1033&ac=fphttp://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/how-to/articles/choosing-rain-gutters.aspx?LangType=1033&ac=fp

          11. User avater
            Sphere | Apr 04, 2008 10:45pm | #18

            Berger makes a halfround gutter hanger that theoretically, can pivot and dump. The down spout connection may be an issue, but the circles will stay up.

            The circle is bolted to the hanger, and has a dog that catches the hanger at the proper orientation, give a hard tug, and the circle can pivot down.

            SeeYou should have the dirt on them, thats where I have hung them, subbing to him.

            View Image

            There, clik the pic.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

            "Welcome to Poo-ville, can I have your socks?Seriously Folks, I need a home for 3 lovers of your life.

          12. MFournier | Apr 04, 2008 11:12pm | #19

            Nice gutters With the price of copper what it is today I would hate to pay the bill on a house worth of them. I built a few build it getters lined with copper about 10 years ago, Now my lumber yard no longer stocks rolls of copper they kept disappearing. The last 24" wide roll I bought for a Bay window roof was over $800.00. a roll.

          13. User avater
            Sphere | Apr 04, 2008 11:21pm | #20

            You can get the exact same stuff ( hangers and gutter) in Alum. We've hung a lot of all three.

            I think CU is running around 5.00$ a lb these days..more or less.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

            "Welcome to Poo-ville, can I have your socks?Seriously Folks, I need a home for 3 lovers of your life.

          14. MFournier | Apr 05, 2008 02:19am | #23

            Yep .0216 Thick - 16 Oz 25"x50ft roll of copper flashing is about $789.00
            Don't know what the cost per pound is I don't buy it that way.

          15. User avater
            Sphere | Apr 05, 2008 02:47am | #24

            You DO buy it by the LB. 24" x 50'=100 lbs if it is 16 oz Copper ( 16oz per sqft.) so you are paying closer to 7.89 a lb or sq ft.

            I didn't acount for the extra inch, never saw 25" wide, jsut 2' and 3' wide.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

            "Welcome to Poo-ville, can I have your socks?Seriously Folks, I need a home for 3 lovers of your life.

          16. User avater
            Sphere | Apr 04, 2008 11:25pm | #21

            Check these out.

            View Image

             

             

             

            View ImageSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

            "Welcome to Poo-ville, can I have your socks?Seriously Folks, I need a home for 3 lovers of your life.

          17. MFournier | Apr 05, 2008 02:07am | #22

            Nice

  5. Piffin | Apr 04, 2008 01:11am | #6

    I have a metal roof and have replaced the gutters twice now.

    They are due for a third time, but I will be redesigning them this time with metal hanger straps, twice as many of them, and set to hang lower than the plane of the ice slide so the ice can overshoot them, but they should still catch most of the water.

     

     

    Welcome to the
    Taunton University of
    Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
     where ...
    Excellence is its own reward!

  6. Notchman | Apr 04, 2008 01:27am | #8

    In snow country, it's beneficial to build a gable over your entry to shed the snow to either side.

    Use the gizmo's for the rest.

    While you don't plan to be there during snow season, I suggest this for those who DO build and live in snow country: Our family built a cabin in the mountains years ago and my Dad brought that wisdom from his experience helping build Forest Service buildings in the Cascade Mountains on a CCC crew in the '30's.

    As the area developed where our cabin was located, a number of people didn't think of sliding snow over entries....one woman got hit and ended up with a broken leg....

    And I've seen snow slide off a steep roof with laminated shingles.

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