Hail Damaged Siding, What to replace underneath new siding?
I would love to hear everyone’s opinion on this. Last summer, a hailstorm came through my area, and I have hired a contractor to put new siding on. I understand there are many ways of doing things, but something this important I don’t want to mess up.
My home is 20 years old, 2X4 construction with 1/2″ plywood over, and 1″ rigid foam insulation over the plywood, the insulation is covered with Tyvek wrap, followed by the aluminum siding. Once all of the old siding is off, there will be alot of nail holes and tears in the insulation and Tyvek.
My Question…before new siding gets put on, should the house have all new Tyvek wrap? Or as the insurance company figures, should it have just 1/4″ fanfold insulation? Or both? Or no new Tyvek and just the fanfold insulation?
I have a few contractor friends and opinions vary greatly. One says no new Tyvek because you can’t seal new tyvek around the windows. One says no new Tyvek, just fanfold Insulation. Another says just seal the old Tyvek with some type of special tape and forget the fanfold. Seems to me a new Tyvek wrap would not be that difficult, but I am first to admit I have no clue. The fanfold insulation sounds logical to me. Any idea’s for me? By the way, I am in a cold climate, as far up in northwest Illinois as you can get.
Also might add, I have aluminum siding now, thinking of going to a foam backed vinyl possibly…..
Thanks in advance for all of the suggestions!
Replies
At the least use Tyvek tape to seal the old Tyvek. Removing the old is the option I would use, bu be sure at least 6" border of the old Tyvel around the windows and doors. Then lapping the new tyvek following thier instructions, less folding it into th opening, should maintain your rain/wind barrier. It is important that all laps be taped.
The fanfold behind new vinyl siding does not act as a weather barrier, although many make that claim. It mostly adds a little backing to the vinyl, that's all.
With vinyl siding it is important to maintain the weather barrier behind it. Be it house wrap or felt paper. I have never seen a vinyl siding job that didn't let water get behind it.
That is interesting Dave. I haven't decided for absolute sure to replace with vinyl, but I figure vinyl has to hold up at least as good as the aluminum? There is a product by I believe Norandex that is vinyl with a foam backing and that is what I would probably go with IF I go with vinyl. The aluminum dents so easy in a hailstorm. The insurance company figures the fanfold insulation, but does not allow for any new tyvek or time to do it. I do believe the only reason they allow for the fanfold insulation is because the original aluminum siding on the house had a backing, but perhaps they always figure fanfold in no matter what? Is the fanfold insulation needed at all? Would I be better off to just make sure the entire home gets a new Tyvek wrap, or should both be done no matter what siding I go with?
I personally consider fan fold to be a waste of time.
It offers minimal insulation value and no real weather sealing capabilities.
The comment about vinyl allowing water to get behind it applies to aluminum siding as well. The problem is usually at the j moldings. Normal installation of the j does nothing to divert water back to the face of the siding.
I would replace the Tyvek and use a Vycor tape to seal it to the windows.
Terry
I haven't installed any Norandex siding, but did use thier doors and windows for years. They use to be good products, so I would assume the siding would be the same.
Fanfold insulation was sold as an addition of insulation for older homes that may not have had any insulation in the walls(mid south area), It did act somewhat as an air barrier if installed correctly, but beyond that it's value as a moisture barrier was questionable because of the open joints and lack of any sealing method. It's primary function was to act as a leveling medium behind the siding. For older homes with wood siding covered by aluminum or vinyl it was pretty good for reducing the high and low spots from old siding.
I use to do remodeling, but very little new construction, so my knowledge of fanfolds use in that area is minimal.
You already have 1" of rigid foam on the outside, so my guess is that the additional 1/4" of fanfold is not doing much in the way of insulation or needed for leveling. I would be inclined to trade off the fanfold for the cost of the tyvel replacement or repair. It won't be an even trade, so expect to add a little to the kitty for the tyvek.
Vinyl siding has an economic place in building and remodeling. I haven't seen in alum. siding jobs in my area in years. Vinyl has the edge on alum. because of its' dent free nature and has become more color fast over the years than alum. I think it still has a tendency to fade and become brittle as it ages, but that is just a swag on my part.
Most of the old pros around here would recommend fiber cement siding as the best replacement if you can afford the upgrade. James Hardie and Certinteed f/c siding would be two to look at.
Was the rigid foam taped and sealed when it was installed? If so, and it was done proberly, you already have a wind/moisture barrier in place and the tyvek is reduntant.
There's absolutely no point in applying fanfold over 1" of foam. Fanfold is only used to provide a flat surface with siding over existing siding -- the additional insulating value is negligible. (But many siding contractors simply don't know how to do it any other way.)
If I were doing it I'd rip off most of the old Tyvek but leave 6-12" around the windows/doors. Apply new Tyvek and tape to the old stuff sticking out, then tape over any large holes in the old stuff (won't hurt if you miss the occasional nail hole).
And please at least use steel vs aluminum siding, or a good grade of vinyl. (I'd go with fiber-cement of one of the better hardboards.)
It should be pointed out that applying the Tyvek (and perhaps ripping off the original siding) is something you can do yourself, and you'd likely do a better job than the siding installer (who would be in too much of a hurry).
Thank you all so much for the input. It all helps! It sounds like most everyone agree's fanfold doesn't do much, so I am leaning towards forgetting that altogether. My contractor told me that the fanfold was used mainly for leveling also and that he has never used it on a newer home.
Keep in mind I know little or nothing about all this, but even I understand the benefits of the Tyvek, I certainly understand how moisture is something to avoid at all costs. The contractor I plan on using though does not seem to want to put up new Tyvek. I definately want to, so it will be done, but I'd appreciate it if you guys can help me "argue my case". My contractor says it won't be necessary, because even the insurance company doesn't include it. He also says it doesn't really help because you can't seal around the windows. Although I have pointed out it can be taped to provide a moisture barrier for most everywhere. He also brings up in our conversations that after you put it up, you then pound nails through it everywhere, so you end up with Tyvek with alot of holes! I must admit, for me who doesn't know any better, it's hard to argue his last point. I look at it like Tyvek can't possibly take that much time and there simply has to be benefits and it has to repell most if not all moisture. I will do that for sure, just need help with my arguments so I don't get on his bad side.
Perhaps I should have asked the question also of what would everyone suggest for a replacement siding. I have never been happy with the aluminum. Dents far too easily! Steel has been mentioned, and fiber cement siding. I have heard both good and bad about vinyl, let me ask this question:
What would be the best replacement siding a guy could use that would be comparable to the cost of the aluminum?
I know nothing about the fiber cement board, I did ask the gentleman about it at the lumber yard last year, and he said it's ok if you don't mind repainting it in 10-15 years, and I have a big house, so I don't think I want to have to do that. I would much prefer a "maintenance free" siding if at all possible. Once again, I really, really appreciate the help and idea's! Thanks!
Vinyl is available in diffrent thicknesses. The thicker the better.
If Mastic brand siding is available in your area, they have some nice profiles in .044 and thicker. (.042 is as thin as I would consider).
Most every brand has different thicknesses available. Even some of the cheapest brands offer some styles in a thicker vinyl.
I have only installed one job with the foam backed vinyl. It was one of the few houses around here that did not suffer hail damage from a storm that came through here about 2 years ago.
Compared to aluminum, vinyl siding is a bargin. You should be able to get an upgraded line of vinyl for the same material cost.
All this being said, I would rather see cement board siding instead of vinyl any day.
Terry
The house kitty-cornered across from ours was built about 20 years ago and is the original vinyl. It's held up quite well. But I've seen other vinyl jobs that look like sith after ten years -- depends on the quality of the product and the quality of the work.
Re fiber cement, if given a good paint job initially it shouldn't need repainting for at least 15 years, maybe 20. After 20 years many cheap metal and plastic siding products need painting too -- their finishes are NOT "maintenance free".