Hi all
Looking for some suggestions.
I’m fixing up a condo for someone and all was ok till yesterday.
They have a handrail going up some steps, and the top connection was literally falling out of the wall.
Handrail is a 1 x 6 Oak board held on at the top and bottom with a 2″ Oak spacer block.
I removed the rail and top block and looked closely at it (I figured a nice large toggle bolt or 2 would solve the problem) and then realized there was a pocket door behind it.
Can’t get any bolts, anchors, etc. in that are large enough to hold the block that don’t extend right into the door.
Can’t remove the door without making a real mess.
Only thing I can think of is to replace the blocks with a double block. Put the first one on with some toggle bolts that are pulled out and then cut off, and put the second block on over the first with a hollow to cover the nuts.
The is like no room to get a hand into the hollow for the pocket door, no working space and has already been fixed before with expansion bolts that have torn out some nice 1 in holes.
Whoever fixed it before already has scratches in the door from the last repair. I can fix the scratches without removing the door.
If anyone has a great idea, I’m open to suggestions.
Jeff
Replies
Time to do a permanent fix. Take the pocket door trim off and remove the door. You should be able to remove the trim at the pocket side and head of the door, and get to the track hardware. After the door is out, glue your blocking in, behind the drywall. You can pull it up with a couple of dw screws from the outside, while the glue sets. Attach the oak block and hand rail at the same time if you want to. The screws in the outside bolck will also act as a clamp while the glue inside sets. You can also repair the damaged door while it is down.
You toggle bolt idea would most likely work, but still not the stongest fix . Remember, most stairway falls occur on the first two steps at the top and bottom of the stairs. Hand rail connects in those two areas should be as strong as you can make them.
You don't want to be the last guy that fixed it after someone falls and rips the hand rail off the wall. Not doing the proper repair could cost you more!
Dave
I've struggled with this problem before. I've also tryed many easy fixes. Bottom line is, you cant hang a railing with plungs, mollies,toggles off of sheetrock.
Are you sure the pocket door won't come out, after removing the casing?
I would suggest using 1/2 "or 3/4" plywood backer to the sheetrock. glue a 12"X12" square inside the wall and attach the rail with regular screws. If you still can't get past the pocket door, then use a rectangular piece and cut a small hole in the sheetrock some ways from the area and easy to patch. I use a PL-400 construction adheasive and a couple of D-wall screws hold it while drying.
Cut a piece of 3/4" plywood 4"x12", cut sheetrock or plaster 4"x 6". Start a coarse 2" screw in the plwood for a handle about in the middle of plywood. Apply adhesive to plywood at the top and bottom 3" of plywood block. Hold the block by the screw and then screw thru rock into blocking at top and bottom .Replace drywall patch, tape, install your handrail bracket.
mike
OK, You were smarter firster!
;-)
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Yeah, either remove the door (shouldn't be that hard) or cut out the drywall, so that you can get a good-sized piece of 3/4" plywood back there, glued to the back of the drywall.
There is one other option: There is a mega-toggle that is used for hanging grab rails in bathrooms. It goes into a hole about 1-1/2" in diameter, and grips around the entire perimeter of the hole. The regular version is probably too deep and would interfere with the door, but there is a shallow version that might work. Places that sell handicapped aids will carry these.
This still will be marginal at best, though -- the things don't develop full strength on plain drywall, but are intended for a tile/drywall combination. Also, the plate they leave on the outside of the wall is about 3" in diameter, and won't be hidden in most cases.
remove all blocks , install a sub-rail glued and screwd full length and then the blocks and rail proper..if it don't narrow the stairs adversly.
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Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Yours is a common problem, don't bother trying to fasten any sort of rail bracket to the drywall. For starters it's not code approved. In theory the railing needs to support the weight of a 300 lb drunken sailor should he stumble or need to pull himself up. Anyone who attaches a railing to drywall is open to a lawsuit, big time. My method of fixing the problem is to screw a decorative 1x3, parallel with the railing over the drywall, think of it as a long narrow rosette. Fasten at each stud crossing with screws or in the case of the pocket door frame, wherever the framing crosses the 1x3. In most cases you can slip a 3/4 inch piece of plywood between the door and the drywall for added holding power at mid span between the framing. The handrail brackets screw to the 1/3 as needed. Ends up rock solid and has the added effect of keeping dirty paws from rubbing against the wall.
great minds think alike...thanx Armin.
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Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
That's what I do over older weak plaster
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Proof once again a pictures is worth a thousand words. Nice follow up, piffin.
Good idea
jeff
Hi all
Some great ideas.
I'll look again at the set up on Monday (weekend off) and see which will work best.
My partner looked at the pocket door also and thought it would be a mess to remove.
Looks kind of like a ready made set up and prehung in a way that's hard to play with. Trim looked like it would break up if removed.
I thought about putting in a long support for the rail, and might go back to that again.
Also, the plywood idea as a backer got me thinking.
Maybe I'll enlarge the holes into a slot, slide in some plywood, glue in place, and hide it with the long rail support.
A little patching from the front and it might be hidden.
Thank you for the great thoughts.
Jeff
First, a 1x6 is neither a legal or a safe handrail. Consider that as you go forward. maybe a redisign of the system is in order. And a handrail should be able to withstand 250# of force at any point along it's length.
That said,
To remount here, I suppose what I would do is to cut out a portion of the sheetrock where the mount goes, say 8" x 8", hopefuly between the rail studs for the pocket door.
Then fit a couple of verticle pieces of 3/4" backingin behind the hole, gluing and screwing to the SR at edges of the hole. These pieces of straping or plywood would be at least 16" long, vertically to get good bearing behind the SR.
Now, when you put the little old 8x8 SR patch in and finish over it, you have solid screwing material to fasten to.
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Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
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Remove the entire Opocket door assembly and toss it in the dumpster.
Stud up the opening for a conventional hinged door, putting a stud or 2 where the hanrail will fall.
fix the sheetrock
Hang the new door.
mount the rail
And slap the "designer"
Mr T
Happiness is a cold wet nose
GO ORANGEMEN!!!
T
Sorry, no can do.
Owner likes this set-up as is.
Jeff
It doesn't matter if you bugger up the trim. That easily replaced and finished at a minor cost.
With the door out of the way you can slide in as large a piece of 3/4 plywood as you need into more than one bay. Then glue it in place, held with a couple of screws from the outside.
Piffin's solution of a large decorative backer, behind a new - to code - safe handrail, works the best. You can put in as many piffin screws as needed to hold that backer to the new plywood screw base, then the railing brackets to the base, at any position along the wall.
Actually, I like the Large Backer also.
Problem is the rail is one of 4 on the steps (a short landing in between), and then I would need to make major changes to make them all look alike.
Owner doesn't want to turn this into a major overhaul.
I started out just putting in a small bathroom in his office and ended up doing alot of small fixes and improvements.
Cost is starting to mount and their trying not to break the budget.
Elderly couple (80's) and very nice, I don't want them to think I'm taking them for a ride.
Always good repeat business from them and all their friends.
If I can figure out how to match the stain, I might attack the door trim.
Jeff
I think either removing the door or cutting a hole in the drywall is apt to provide the cheapest (though still decent, reliable) fix. Removing the door would probably be the first choice, structurally, but the decision would rest mostly on which is likely to be the least work.
With an elderly couple, you want handrails that can be relied on.
I agree on the point about elderly people.
Will be looking at the door trim on Monday.
Jeff