How many of you guys still use a hand saw on the job and how often do you use em?? When i was a young lad just starting out in the trades I worked with a few Carpenters who used only hand saws for all there finsh work, theres not many if any that do that anymore.. when ever Im in the shop and look at my Disston D23s hanging there I think of those guys..
ToolDoc
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Replies
I'm very fond of hand saws. I always have at least 2 in the rig and use one of them most weeks. As i work in several trades, weeks can go buy without much woodcutting. I've got some real beauties both in the house and in the shop that see infrequent use.
joe d
I don't understand why hand saws don't get used more than they do. Wouldn't wanna do any serious cutting with one, but they sure can be handy.
I was once on a job where they were setting trusses. There were 6 guys working, as I recall, and a crane sitting there at $90 an hour. They needed to cut the overhang off of one truss so they could set it.
So everybody stands around while one or two guys go to the truck, get a saw, stretch out 2 extension cords, then cut off the overhang. I could have had the thing off in 30 seconds with a hand saw.
When I built that spec house, I had a guy helping with the sill plates. One of the plates needed a small notch for something. He was going to get his sawzall out an run cords around back of the house just to cut one notch an inch or so deep. I handed him a hand saw out of my tool box, and he had it cut pretty quickly. Much less time than running to get a power tool. After he was done, he said he hadn't used a hand saw for 5 years.
Seems to me that they still have a place in today's construction, but they don't get used very often.
Why isn't eleven pronounced onety one?
Amen. Perfect for short duration things, or that one little piece of shoe that you need to make a return on. ( "I cut that on my 12" slider fifteen times and still can't find the little triangle!" )
I still use my Grandad's old saws on occasion. I sharpen them myself because to get a good jointing, setting and sharpening is a lost art. The saw shops do a poor job in my area.
The new saws you buy seem to have throw-away blades. the exception is the Japanese pull saws which work great if you get good ones.
An old carp that used to work with my Grandad would file his saws at the end of each day and, to impress me and others I suppose, would slide a needle down the teeth to ensure that the set was true.
A good, sharp handsaw is a pleasure to use and cuts surprizingly true and fast and clean.
Exactly, Boss!
My standard work bench/sawhorse has a shelf in the bottom that has my three handsaws in it. I keep them in sheathes made by cutting old rubber inner tube to protect from mild rain and from other tools that get thrown in there.
So often, little jobs get slowed down by power tools. I've even seenguys that want to hook up a compressor and hose and gun to nail up one sheet of plywood. DUH!Excellence is its own reward!
"I've even seenguys that want to hook up a compressor and hose and gun to nail up one sheet of plywood."
I really ticked off a guy who wanted to do something like that once. Had to build a single wall about 12' long on a remodel. He insisted on hooking up his compressor and nail gun. By the time he popped back up with the compressor charged up, I had finished nailing the whole wall. He was NOT amused.
.
Funny how you and I think alike on a lot of things. Maybe we're telepathic, or psychopathic or something ?
I have a microwave fireplace in my house... Last night I laid down in front of the fire for the entire evening in two minutes.
Yeah, We're both a little burned out and on the verge of some sort of carreer adjustment. LOLExcellence is its own reward!
I think a large part of the reason they don't get used is that there's not many guys around who can sharpen them right, and you really can't but a decent new saw. I teach woodworking and every new saw I buy is pretty much crap.
The first time i used an old, taperground saw that had been hand filed and set was a revelation.
If anyone was making a handsaw the way it should be made, however, I'm sure none of us would want to pay for it. Just look at those Lie-Nielsen tenon and dovetail saws.
Not counting Japanese saws, anyone found a production saw that cuts well?
-Kit
I've got several hand saws, different brands. The sharpening is the key. A properly sharpened saw cuts fast and is a joy to use. I just pulled my handsaw out the other to finish cutting some stair stringers. Just the tool to finish that tread and riser cut.
Dana
Salmon Falls Housewrights
I was able to find a handsaw jointer, filing jig and bench clamp, bit by bit from second hand and antique shops. The items weren't that expensive because the shop owners didn't know what they were. I also have several old bucking and falling saws (misery whips) along with the filing and setting apparatus, and they can be kind of pleasurable to use too, if they're set up properly.
It isn't that difficult to keep a saw sharp once you get it shaped up right. It is a bit of work to get one really trued up, and like anything else you hand sharpen, you'll be a lot more aware of grit, old nails and where you lay the saw.
And like a couple of people have mentioned, it's a joy to work with a good quality, sharp handsaw.
Commuters?
They go back and forth to work.
This is from yesterday's NY Times crossword puzzle.
-Peter
got my 8 pt. SS Disston and my 12 pt Disston in my cross body box all the time.. they both have 1/4 " luan sheaths to protect them and they manage to get used on every job... no one else uses them on my crews .. some have the Japanese pull sawsMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Question: FHB (over 10 yrs ago) had a handsaw article that said the last "good" handsaw made in the US was an early 50's 2 pc. plastic handle job made by Disston. I've got one, but cannot quite read the blade as to if it's a D85 or D86 or ?? -- anybody know the answer?
Approaching 100 hand saws, most no good, but about 20 are sharpened and in tune. I'll pay 50 cents for one with a bent blade and broken handle at a garage sale just for the handle screws.
All time favorite is the Disston #196 3.5 pt. docking saw - can cut off a fir 2X10 with it in about 15 seconds. Lots of D8s in various styles, favorite of that is the pistol grip version with the fingerhole. Got an old Sandvik 275 that cuts fast also and a Crafstman from the 30s that is as good as any.
Most the good Disston rip or rough crosscut blades read "cast steel" rather than nothing which I assumes means the stock was rolled steel. Anybody know the metalurgy rationale behind this? Straighness?
Another excellent reason for handsaws it that the local aerospace free wood lot (ask Luka about good stuff from there) does not allow any type power tools for salvage.
Use grandpas old set and saw vise, etc. for tuning/sharpening.
Took about 15 years to finallly learn how to straighten a bent saw with many taps of a ball peen hammer - you stike what seems like the wrong side of the blade to stretch the metal.
I have an 8 pt & a10 pt in the box all the time. Use atleast one of them daily. Have a matching set in the shop, the old ones with the splits in the handles. They're all Sandvicks, not bad. Seen some nice ones in one of the catalogs, made with Sheffield steel blades, very interesting, but nothings wrong with the ones I've got. It's true about finding someone to sharpen though. The old guys who did a good job around here are dying off. May have to learn how myself.
Brudoggie
I like both handsaws. Another tool that has fallen by the wayside is the yankee screwdriver. I frequently carry a yankee in my pouch when doing finish work (especially with hardware). Just as quick and a whole lot lighter and quieter than a screwgun. Last guy I worked with asked why I used it and then proceeded to show me his $120 dewalt 7.2 volt screwdriver. About the same speed, but I saved $100. Plus, I like to use the old tools as every now and then.Jon Blakemore
I believe that would be the Disston D-95. Its a 9 pt. saw that cuts real good. I got one from my Dad and wondered why Disston put that cheesy looking handle on such a jewel. I thought my Dad had probably broken the original handle and got a K-Mart special to replace it. Now I know he didn't, but still wonder about the first question. But I love the saw, both because it cuts good and it was my Dad's.
I've got a 3.5 point Disston Docking saw. It's a #106. Great saw with original parts and legible blade etching. I've got several misery whips that aren't as good cutters as the one my uncle and i bucked logs with many years ago. He called tonight planning a road trip across the country for mid October. I'll ask him to help me dress up their edges.
joe d
Mike,
I too carried two hand saws in my cross-over box when working out of my PU. I took a four pieces of 1/2" stock, relieved two pieces to accept the width and thickness of the blade, put em together and screwed them to the lid of the box at the reinforcing channels. A bungie held them in place. Apparently not many people think about using the lid of the box for anything, because I have gotten a lot of compliments on the design over the years. Also used the lid to store my 4' T-square. I use innertube rubber bands screwed in place with fender washers for that. Works great!
Jumping in here about three days after the fact, funny how quickly some of these slip by. Yes I have purchased an excellent production handsaw: an 8 point plastic handled Sandvic with heat tempered teeth (can't be sharpened) I ran my thumb down it the first day to see how sharp it was and almost needed stitches. Its been in the lid of my tool box for ten years and is still suprizingly sharp considering how much its been used. I guess I got one of the good ones because one or two of the other fellas who purchased them didn't get as lucky.
I liked it so much that I retired my Daddy's and Grandaddy's saws to the shop wall, partly for decoration, and partly in hope that my sons will want them.
sometimes board sometimes knot
You guys are right about trying to find anyone to sharpen hand saws, where I live there is not one sharpening service that will do them, they all want to do carbide blades, guess thats where the money is..
ToolDoc
I've plugged this guy before over at Knots, but if any of you need handsaws sharpened RIGHT, give him a call.
He's fast, cheap, can rework, retooth, straighten, de-rust, etc. He'll sharpen anything from the dinkiest dovetail saw to a 5 point rippjng monster. I didn't know how well a panel saw could work till I had Tom sharpen a couple.
Tom Law
62 W. Water St.
Smithsburg, MD 21783
301-824-5223
Thanks I will keep him in mind when i need my disstons done..
Tooldoc
I just found this web site soo thought I would post it here for you all to enjoy.. http://www.disstonianinstitute.com has tons of info on Disston saws..
ToolDoc
Great filing instructions! I'm gonna go touch up my saws.
BTW, thanks!
TOOLDOC,
Is there a market for old hand saws? I see them all the time at auction and seldom does anyone bid on them. I personally have a bunch in storage, but use a Stanley shortcut every so often instead of a jig saw. Can't get them sharpened around here and just replace it every few years.Ditch
HMMMM.. is there a market for old saws??? good queston.. there are a few people who collect them and some model of saws are worth a few bucks.. but the average saw is not worth very much, I see them all the time at flea markets and rescue the ones in good shape..
ToolDoc
I've got one handsaw that I still carry, but I haven't used it in several years. I do have a cordless circ. saw and recip. saw and a bunch of batteries that get used regularly. One sheet of plywood = paslode impulse nailer. I was installing a bathtub today and had to install a ledger. Cut the 2x4 with the cordless saw and shot it on with the impulse. MORE POWER!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hey, tooldoc, thanks, great site!
first comment based on the site - "D-8 Handsaw with Thumbhole Handle for Two-Handed Use" -- -see my previous post - I always thought this was a 'fingerhole", shows how much smaller people were generally then and how little tool history I know!.
2nd comment is that I did not know most of the saws I use that I consider "good" are over 80 years old!
Art B.
Pete Taran...now there's a guy who knows his stuff about handsaws. I collect them, but I don't use them too much any more. But having said that, I don't get to do a lot of work any more. But most of the carpenters that I work with still do.
My favorite new saw is the Sandvick. It's not what the Disston was, but a good saw just the same.
If you want to buy the old ones, go to eBay and look under collectable tools. You'll find lots of old Disstons that are still good usable saws.
Ed. Williams
ed. good to see you again.....james is hoping you're going to be comming to texfest...it sure would be great to meet you thereMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Ed,
Which model Sandvik do you like? I'm always looking for decent a decent new saw for my shop program. Where do you find it, and how much?
Haven't been able to bring myself to try the English panel saws. $70-$90 just seems like too much...
Thanks,
Kit
Vanderpooch,
I had been looking for a good crosscut saw for years (gave up trying to find a used one, they seem to have all been bought up to have rural scenes painted on them and hang on the wall). I finally found a good Sandvik 7 pt crosscut at Highland Hardware when I was in Atlanta last summer. $40.00. It wasn't in their catalog, but they will mail order it if it's in the store. GP
Oh man! I still remember my Grandpa using his hand saws. I don`t think he bought a power saw till around mid 60`s. The effortless, almost casual power of the cutting stroke, the anxiety of the full use of the blade...always waiting for it to jump out of the kerf but it never did. Never a bobble or wobble. Like an extension of his body. He grew up with that saw in his hand and it showed. As a teen-ager I was stunned by his skill and confidence. I`ll never forget the time I spent with him. Unfortunately the asbestos got him. What a man.
here's my luan sheaths .... 1/4 luan ply with wood spacers and epoxy finishMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Yeah...I'm still around. Busy as ever. I've been lurking and posting at JLC. good bunch of people over there. All business.
So when is Texfest? Me and the wife are going to Padre for a week this month. Beaumont is not too far from Dallas, maybe a day trip for me. I'll email James for the details.
Sandvick saws can still be bought at a lot of good hardware stores here in Dallas. I'm sure they can be had online. Mine is an eleven point. It's a good saw. Spring steel, and can be re-toothed to your desire or re-sharpend as is.
Hey Ed,
I tried to e-mail you about the fest dates.
TexFest is November 2nd and 3rd, with the main day being the 2nd (Saturday).
We would love to have you and Janie come for the weekend, or even for the day.
Good food, good people, lots of fun! What do ya say? E-mail me for details.
Shirts and hats are available also. See the TexFest update thread in the Tavern for details.
Hope to see ya!James DuHamel
"The Power Zone" http://www.thepowerzone.org
Thought I'd throw my two cents in.
I carry a couple old handsaws in my finish box(which stays in the trailer all the time). One is a 5 or 6 pt. rip and the other is an 8 pt. crosscut. I also carry a japanese style pull saw with rip teeth on one side and crosscut on the other along with a couple of coping saws(I keep the blades turned in opposite directions, saves a lot of time on baseboards and crowns with difficult profiles). The one I use the most is the Japanese pull saw which cuts incredibly fast and is extremely useful. This saw can be used as a jamb saw and the rip teeth also work extremely well. It is also very useful in the woodshop (dovetails/ tenons/ notches etc.) I have a bunch of power tools but I firmly believe in handtools as many times they are more efficient. I think a lot of guys are expecting the power tool to substitute for skill. Some people either can't or won't use a handtool for whatever reason. However it pays to learn!
Mark
I know you're talking about full-sized saws, but that's not the only type of hand-saw that still has a place in today's toolbox: a gent's saw and Exacto razor-saws come to my rescue on a regular basis.
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
I used a handsaw the other day to cut off the top of a standing post. Rather than cut all the way through with a circular saw, I set the depth of the circular saw to about 1 3/8 in., leaving about an inch of wood in the center of the post after I'd sawn all four sides. I finished off the cut with a hand saw. Doing it this way avoids that unnerving instant when the kerf closes and the scrap falls and hits the spinning saw blade. I also use a handsaw to make flush cuts. When I run fascia and rakes, for example, I run the fascia long, and use a handsaw to cut it flush to the rough rake. Then I run the rake board long and use a handsaw to cut it flush to the fascia. (My apologies to purists who miter this joint). I also use a handsaw for cuts that my power saw can't make, such as a cut deeper than 3 ½ in. (I have a 10 ¼ circular saw that has a maximum depth of 3 ½) or bevels that exceed 45 °. So, in answer to the original question, yes I still use a handsaw. In my opinion, a sharp handsaw, along with sharp edge tools (chisels and planes), are indispensible in key spots.