Does anyone know what rates these national franchises charge per hour? I am expanding my business to include small projects and would like to know where the competition is on pricing since a few of these franchises have popped up in town recently. Any other advice on advertising, contracts, estimating (free or not- most of the franchises are free), etc. will be appreciated as always.
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$70 an hour..Mid Western Canada
I'd imagine thier rates may vary depending on the part of the country you're in. Why don't you just call them and ask? Easy and accurate, no?
Actually, I have called but they want to come out and give an estimate. The receptionist wouldn't say anything about rates.
Same here. My M.I.L. had some work done, called them (Case Handyman) for a bid. They came out and looked, but then wouldn't give her a price by phone, wanted to set up a sales meeting.
"I needed a drink, I needed a lot of life insurance, I needed a vacation, I needed a home in the country. What I had was a coat, a hat and a gun."
Raymond Chandler's Philip Marlowe
Edited 5/22/2007 9:08 am by Huck
Since you are not getting much of a response .
Im not one but I did quite a bit of research into it .
What I found was 50 to 100 per hour but they dont bill per hour . I read a survey of an outfit that called like 10 different ones since the price structure was hush hush and they reported how much certain jobs costs. From that I figgured what it would be around here .
I also talked to a handy man that worked for a professional outfit . [Handyman Connection} Incidently they pay him but he bids the work and doubles it and they get half. He gets paid whether they do or not and provides insurance .
No one here would pay 50 to 100 per hour if they knew they were paying it which seems to be the reason . Anyway theres two different ways they do it . Some have a pricing sheet the lady at the desk will tell you what a light fan costs to be hung or storm door etc. Most of them send a job bidder and give free estimates and they up sell. They form a list of things the customer wants done and they are given a written estimate that doesnt specify rates.
There are several handymen here on this forum but they arent responding as yet. Im wondering why.
Tim
Most of us probably did not answer because he asked what the national franchises charge. Don't recall anyone here who has gone over to the dark side.(;-)
I do 40-50/hr depending on complexity/tools involved. Have charged 60/hr. If I have to load and unload three thousand worth of stuff to do the job well and quickly then the rate goes up. Should equal out to snuffy with his old circ saw and hammer at cheap rate. But not Snuffy's brother with no insurance who must have cash.
I do not mark up materials as a rule, if it is something I happen to have on hand I bill it at the prevailing price. In NC labor/service is not subject to sales tax, materials are (to include any mark-up). If you mark-up then by rights you need a state tax number and all the grief reporting that goes with it. I had rather charge for the service of shopping and hauling.
Edited 5/22/2007 12:50 pm ET by rasconc
...There are several handymen here on this forum but they arent responding as yet. Im wondering why. ...
The first thing I did when I saw the topic was to mark it as "high interest" because, as a handyman, I'd like to know too. I didn't reply for a few reasons:
First of all, I already know that I don't charge anywhere near the rates of the franchises. If I can get $40/hr for every hour of a 40-hour week, I would be quite satisfied. That's assuming, of course, that I was billing the customer for every hour of work that they don't see (like paperwork, tool maintenance, inventory control, etc.)
Secondly, hourly rates for what kind of work? I want more pay for harder work (either physically or mentally). I also want more pay for jobs that aren't as much fun. If I were running a franchise, I wouldn't be able to adjust my rates like this.
Thirdly, I rarely bill by the hour. I really prefer to bid the job. Working harder and smarter nets me more $/hr. The few jobs I've done lately as T&M have been billed by the day. That rate is closer to $35/hr.
Fourthly, my life circumstances are such that I probably don't have a lot of the expenses that many people living in my area have. That's partly due to choices (I think I live quite frugally) and partly good fortune (for example, each of my 3 kids are receiving some college scholarships). I also have absolutely no advertising expenses. All of my work is through customer referrals. Keeping my rates very reasonable helps to ensure that customers will continue to refer me. My wife also works full time and I rely on her medical benefits.
And finally, I hesitated to divulge my rates (vague as they are) because I don't want anyone else to base what they charge on what they think I charge. Each of us should be charging enough to be comfortable doing what we do, but not so much that the well runs dry. There's a lot of variables that go into figuring out how much that is.
-Don
I appreciate your candor and your reticence. I'm curious as to why you marked the topic of "high Interest" and your "wanting to know" when you say in effect that you are comfortable in what you charge?
Being obliged by circumstances to do things or charge certain rates doesn't necessarily translate into being comfortable.
I know exactly where you are coming from because I used to do it and say the same things. I was comfortable but it was a comfortable rut. Over time (a long friggin time) and reading great posts from magazines like FH has educated me greatly.
roger
Most of my customers have never used a "handyman". They may have had work done; a new roof, driveway, painting, etc., but that's not typically work where a client can figure out an hourly rate. It's rare, but I do get the occasional customer who thinks my prices are high. Even though I am pretty comfortable with my rates, I would like to know what others are charging. I wouldn't actually say it, but it's satisfying to imagine saying to one of these customers "you think I'm expensive? Then why don't you call Rent-a-Human and pay them $X/hr."
I actually do say it. The glass and mirror guy gets $65.00 and his helper wife when needed gets $30.00. The janitorial Co. get $62.00. The HVAC gets around $80.00. The lawyer gets $200.00. By this time I already know that I'm not getting the job so it doesn't help but it makes me feel alot better.
People(probably me included) want a person who is an absolute wizard in their problem solving abilities coupled with extreme speed and their prowess in doing a fantastic job BUT be a total moron in their pricing ability or knowing their proper worth.
Rather than thinking that the people are getting the bargain of a lifetime I'm happier knowing I only work half the time to make what some of these guys make.
My aim is not just to keep busy. I want interesting work and I want to be happy. Two things make me very NOT happy. A miserable customer and not charging my worth. Not seeing a miserable customer is probably my mistake and not charging enough is definitely my mistake.
roger
Well put Roger.Jay
Well , I did quite a case study on it . I was thinking seriously of doing it and buying franschise.
Anyway as you say billable hours for what ?
I read an article that for me summed it up and my own experience.
I load tools from the shop and drive to the material outlet to load up there. If I forget anything its money from my pocket . I see Bill out side the hardware store and talk to him. After all I havent seen him in quite some time and have been thinking about calling him. Mr, Tight azz sees me walk in and wants to know how do his job himself . I see a couple more people and talk to them. I then move to the lumber yard where they dont have what I want completley and say its on order . Makes me want to tell them when the money truck comes in Ill pay my bill. <G> I see a couple more people there and get hung up for a bit . I cant haul all this stuff at once so I have to unload stuff at the house every night and rearrange for the next day. Its always somthing I dont haul all the time like a wheel bar , etc. I call the client and hes not home and she knows nothing or versa but I get the wrong one and get different orders. Im gonna have to iron that out before I start . So the other one calls me when Im eating dinner or watching my favorite show and I spend the best part of an hour there . They even call when Im lucky. Somthing changes and they reschedule or put me off because of somthing .
Its hard to get billable hours for me doing all that . <G> Bottom line is a bean counter couldnt figgure what the real paid hours were for real. Reminds me of a farmer.
As friendly and disorganized as I can be distracted I figgured it wasnt for me . Takes a special person to do what you do and make a living at it . Thats a feat in its self in my book. I have a bunch of properties so I really do handy man work along with other things so Ive gotten pretty fair at it but not to run a business from it for the public . That would be a bear of another thing to skin .
Bottom line , I have respect for good handymen .
Tim
And did I mention that it takes so many damn tools to do that many trades? I dont mind buying them but keeping up with them and in their damn place is hard enough with out drawing them out several times a week only to put them back where they belong !
Tim
Oh yea.
I found out the real money in the business is to sub contract the work and sell it your self . Then someone else worries about how it gets done . Thats the beauty of a franchise. Then when you get tired of running it , you sell it . Theres a person on here that works for such an outfit but its not this line of work. I think the money is in the selling of it but not doing it .
Tim
Don,
A few years ago I was at a gathering where Bruce Case of Case handyman spoke. Something he displayed was a number of forms they use to make the jobs run smoothly. i wasn't interested in a franchise, but was interested in how to get small jobs to run better. Like Tim mentioned, I am very easily sidetracked too.
Someday maybe (Ha Ha), I will put some of that knowledge to use. What I am saying is there is a greater value to the customer by working with an organized handyman. With that value is a corresponding rise in price. so the franchise is not just about slapping a higher price on the same old work.
Yesmaam, made a comment in his post about retired people on as fixed income. I would take issue with that somewhat. I would say about 1 in 4 are like those he described. 10 or 15 years ago I would have agreed with his number. Seems like they still had the "depression" mentality. The trend to watch will be how the baby boomers treat their retirement years. I don't think the wealthiest, and most self-indulgent generation will have the same depression mentality.
I have found that retirees who had enough sense to buy a house during their life, often had enough sense to have put money aside, sometimes A LOT of money. They just need to be convinced to part with some of it.
my life circumstances are such that I probably don't have a lot of the expenses that many people living in my area have. That's partly due to choices (I think I live quite frugally) and partly good fortune
I would ask you why in the heck the benefits of the choices you have made should accrue in your customer's bank accounts? it seems you are saying that sinse you made the choice to live frugally, your customers get a lower price.
Bowz
I would ask you why in the heck the benefits of the choices you have made should accrue in your customer's bank accounts? it seems you are saying that sinse you made the choice to live frugally, your customers get a lower price.
I never looked at it that way. That's an interesting take on it. I THINK I was thinking that there are other ways to make more money (as in other kinds of jobs), but I chose this because I like it and can make enough doing it. Your point is well taken though.
Now I think Ill interject somthing I having feelings about.
All this talk about pay is really useless without talking about service and ability. If the last two are met on a professional level I dont think the pay matters. With out them though it makes any price a rip off . Sorta.
Jack of all trades and a master of none is not what most people are looking for even for a cheap price. What is a jack of a trade ? Jack Leg right ? I dont need that ! I dont want that and I dont think it should command a high price . Thats where I believe tradesman dont want to be called handymen.
A professional handy man is not what I call a jack meister. Hes a professional thats trained to handle an array of tasks proficantly. For expample ;
I want a garage door opener fixed and I want it fixed today. I can replace the damn thing myself. Its worth an hour of his time at what ever he is charging other people every day. I can replace it myself in an hour plus 150.00 opener. So he cant get too far out of line on this job.
I want an ice maker fixed and up and running today . I dont really wnt to hear about a back log of work. I didnt drive through McDonalds to pull up in the white sqaure and wait on a fast food resturant. Ill play another hour but I can buy a new one for 75.00 and plug it in so thats about it.
I buy a house and I need the locks changed today. Im not in town so I need him to take care of it . He will have to go to the closing company and pick up a key and return it that day. He will have to buy the locks and charge them to me in his bill. 3 hrs tops but Id pay 4 hrs plus his percentage to have my house locked tight and not have to worry. BUT, thats the point . I need it done and I need to rest assured it will be . Thats what is worth a premium, not the time .
Tim
Now I think Ill interject somthing I having feelings about.
Tim, you can't have feelings, .......you are a landlord! (G)
I think we are kicking at the same pile from different sides. Here are two examples of handyman type jobs I have recently done.
1. 4:30 PM I get a call from the plumber I use. He is on a job with a leaking toilet, and a 2'x2' piece of sub-floor is shot. He can't reset it until the floor is fixed, and it is the only toilet in the house.
So I tell him I can re-arrange my schedule, and be there at 8 AM, and that this typically costs $200-$300 if there is no structural damage, and the owners can then arrange to have a new floor put in after that. Owner says "Go for it"
Next morning I throw in the truck half sheets of 3/8", 1/2", 5/8", and 3/4" plywood, along with various other stuff used for this repair. start loading at 7:30, drive to site, set up, demo, repair, clean, call plumber, and he pulls in to set toilet as I am driving out and heading to the main job with a $250 check at 9:45 AM.
Homeowner is ecstatic at having this taken care of, because they have been driving to the gas station to use the bathroom. He is a tax guy, and this is the middle of tax season, and he has no time to deal with it. At what he charges, he is money ahead by not having to search for someone, and not have to drive to the gas station for a few days while waiting for someone else to make the repair. That is where the real value is in this project.
2. I don't typically work on rentals, but I got a call from a 79 year old stock broker I have done a lot of work for. He has a client who owns a rental house where the soffit and fascia have deteriorated, and the birds built nests in last year. (Client now lives 2000 miles away) I look at it on the way home and give him a call. "Doesn't look too pretty. Probably a long day, and with material he is looking at $600-$800." Again I get the thumbs up to go for it.
So my bill was $678 starting to load at 7:30 and working to around 3:30, and a little more time when I take a load to the landfill. Could have been longer if I hadn't had scaffold, trailer to haul stuff with, and a generator, to avoid popping fuses on the crappy 30 Amp service this place had.
Owner is happy, because tenant is no longer complaining. Stock broker is happy because it got handled with 2 phone calls, and he can get back to doing what he wants to, either playing golf, or playing the market. ( this was the third repair I have done on this rental in the last 2 years) I understand that you would never pay that. But you are also not the typical person I work for. If you called me there is a good chance I would save us both some time and turn your project down.
Interestingly I get about the same amount of additional work out of these projects now, as when I would bill them at much lower amounts, trying to "get my foot in the door" with a new customer. But I don't think I would ever have enough of these types of projects from references to make a real living as a "handyman".
What I am looking to be when I get a call for this type of work, is a trusted shortcut from where the customer is right now, to where they want to be. If they are looking at a rotted toilet floor, but would rather be out boating, then call me. If they are a retired landlord who has nothing else to do but call around for bids, and will take the lowest one, save us both some time and call someone else.
So I think we are saying the same thing, yes?
Bowz
Yes , the first one expained it to a T.
Its true I would not have even called you to do those repairs but if you did do somthing I didnt do OR if I was on vacation price would not be discussed. Its like I dont expect to see hot dog prices when DW has dragged me into a 5 star resturant. I expect to use her credit card! <G> What I would honestly be looking for was you saying , "Ill take care of it ". I can hang up the phone and say YEA, I love it when a plan comes together ! Bowz is going to take care of every thing and Ill get my rent check in the mail with no one moving on me . Geter Done !
Tim
$50 hour in rural Texas.
I ran my own handyman business for a few years. There were a few things that seemed to be 'absolutes' when it came to pricing:
1. Everybody already knows how much the materials will cost, because they already did the shoping at the local big box store. And you'll have a tough time upcharging for the materials if you list them separately on an estimate or invoice. And note that some states have laws governing how and when you must list the materials separately. And don't forget, you'll be the one taking the hours and the miles to get the materials. Good luck.
2. Solidly 2/3 of your customers will be older folks who want the small stuff done, and can no longer do it themselves. 'Older' commonly means retired, which commonly means fixed income -- which can translate into a tough sell for the high-priced jobs. Also, older folks remember when a journeyman carpenter made 8.85 per hour, all in. Still should, shouldn't they? Good luck.
3. I tried to set my rates so that I could charge more than $300 per day, materials not included. And that was when gas was less than $2. With $3 here, and $4 gas on the horizon, I would probably need substantially more.
4. There WILL be competitors that will be charging less than $20 per hour, with no minimums. They'll be the ones who are running under the table -- no taxes or insurance. And they will get many of the jobs you want.
5. It's virtually imossible to log more than 32 billable hours in a week. There is just way too much selling, driving, bookkeeping, calling, estimating, bidding, and etc.
6. Most localities require licenses for almost any kind of handyman work. They certainly require them for plumbing and electrical work. If you don't have those licenses, you need a business plan that allows you to get thqat work subbed out, while you still make the profit. (But see #2 above - those subs will only be costing you about $9 per hour, right?)
7. In the handyman business, estimates are expected to be free -- again, its the clientelle. The older generations have never needed to pay anyone for any estimate, ever. Period.
8. If the customers in your area follow those in mine, you'll stay busy from early spring through mid-September. You'll sit from then till mid-November, at which time you'll need to do at least thirty jobs before Christmas. The phone will then go completely dead until spring. Hopefully, you will have made enough $$ to take your 3-month vacation someplace where pretty women wear skimpy swimsuits. If not, buy some kool-aid -- its a really dry time.
Support our Troops. Bring them home. Now. And pray that at least some of the buildings in the green zone have flat roofs, with a stairway.
Thanks, that's the kind of info I am looking for.
That is a good run-down and I agree with most of it in principle.You forgot the part where you show up at the appointed time and they are not home or "This is an inconvenient time, can you come back tomorrow?";)I would nit-pik about one point you made though, about them already knowing what materials cost. They only think they know.For instance this time of year, I get a lot of calls to replace the hydraulic arms on screen/storm doors. In the hardware stores, you can find them priced from 8.89 up to twenty two and change. I can buy the better ones for twelve something when I get the full box and sell them for $20I don't do a full handyman service, so it is sporadic for me. A decent fit because I show at the big job early AM and get the crews moving and directed, then I can often leave the job to do estimates, design work and visit the little old ladies who need this sort of service.
The little jobs like this often lead to larger jobs so I can somewhat justify it as a loss leader when that happens.If I am going full bore ahead on a job and have to leave to do a half hour job for somebody, that is a loss, but when I can line up several small handyman jobs all in one day, with my two hour minimum, I get home at 2PM smelling like a rose
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
You forgot the part where you show up at the appointed time and they are not home or "This is an inconvenient time, can you come back tomorrow?"
So true.
I also now realize that I forgot about the two dozen "estimates" that folks ask for per year, just so they can pump you for advice on how they should do the job.
"I don't understand your prices. Specifically what are you planning to do?"
I learned that my answer must be: "I'm going to complete the job that you asked me to bid on, and my bid will cover those costs. There are a number of methods that I might choose to use, based on what help is available at the time."
Support our Troops. Bring them home. Now. And pray that at least some of the buildings in the green zone have flat roofs, with a stairway.
What people want to know is how much a job will cost. If a hourly rate comes up, then they get sidetracked by who deserves what etc. Why go there?
As far as competition goes, this forum has really changed my way of thinking. If you search through the old posts there is quite a bit of discussion about hourly rates not being relevant. You charge what you need and get to the point where your customers hire you because you do a good job and conduct business in a way they can trust you.
Poke around in the archives here. Some good stuff about figuring rates etc.
If you do small jobs, the percentage of hours billed compared to hours worked is suprising. I logged my hours one week and found I billed sixty some percent of my hours out. If I have some slow times of the year, the combination can really put a crimp on the gross.
In bidding small jobs, you have to have some sort of system that doesn't take long and includes everything. If you miss something on a small job,it hurts,where it is more easily absorbed in a larger one.
There is also alot in the old posts about free estimates.
maybe 5 yrs ago I interviewed to install for The Handyman Connection.
not a bad gig if U need work. As my luck ran ... on the drive home ... I got a call for a big job with customers I'd written off ... so I never had the chance to work with the Handyman people ... but seemed like a decent deal.
They charged $50/hr. U "ranged" the bid ... a 2 hr job would be bid at a range of 1 to 3 .... U do the work ... collect a check ... take a check for say $300 back to the office end of that day and they cut U one for half ... $150.
Bill at $50 and get paid $25.
and at that time ... 5 yrs ago in Pgh, PA ... their rates were $50/hr.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
For small jobs that'll take 5-6 hours or less, I've been charging a service fee of $85 - that includes one hour. Each additional hour is charged at $65. Materials are whatever they cost, but I'm getting paid the above rate to go to HD. Most folks here (metro detroit western suburbs) can handle those prices and as long as you are efficient and do a great job - they'll end up very happy with you and your work.If I see that their honey-do list is so long that I'll be there for 8 hours or a couple of days - I'll charge between $50-60 an hour.If there are larger projects that will take 5-8 hours (or longer) per project to complete - I'll bid it as one $number with no reference of hourly rate or materials markup.A few things I'ved learned - always start with a fixed service fee for coming out that includes the first hour - that way if you wrap something up in 50 minutes - you don't have some old lady hassling you about it didn't take a whole hour... Most folks understand the service fee idea and it sortof covers the gas and misc stuff you use from your trailer on any given job. Plus - it automatically puts the hourly rate in a more favorable light.Right now I just finished a huge hardwood flooring job and am working on a basement Poplar (paint grade) staircase and later this week a Stain-grade Maple staircase - all for my Div. lawyer on Barter at $50 an hour.JT
We have one around here ( I won't mention the name) I hear they charge 50 an hour. 25 to the house and 25 to the contractor doing the work.
Dave
Case Handyman around here (central MA) charges $80 per hour and the employee gets $15 - $20 per hour out of that. Towards Boston, the rates
are $90+ per hour.
OPD
Hi Doug,
Eight or nine years ago, I worked for Case here in the washington dc metropolitan area and they charged $63./hr for T&M work. I believe their policy at the time was to go the T&M route for smaller jobs.
I spoke to one of their handymen a few years ago and he informed me that they were up to $93./hr.
I do alot of T&M work myself and charge $50./hr and material plus 15%.
For new handyman/punchout type work I try to charge 65./hr for the first day.
I'm often thinking of the handyman business but bigger jobs have been falling into my lap lately.
mike
Here in CT Mr Handyman is charging $100/hr for Tand M work. I was shocked, I immediately raised my rates to $65/hr for first hr then $52 after.
Regardless of their income, I really don't believe any of my customers would be willing to pay me $800/day. Actually, even if they offered it, I wouldn't accept it.
$100 per hour?? Damn...I'm in CT too, and I'm only charging $50!Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Your Friendly Neighborhood Remodelerator
Do they have a trip charge?To everyone who thinks $100/hr. is outrageous, you have to take into account how many billable hours per week their workers can get and what their costs of doing business are.I don't know much about CT, but I've heard it's pretty expensive. They may have to pay their guys $35/hr. plus benefits just in order to attract the kind of workers that they want (i.e. the kind that their customers want in their homes). Couple that with the possibility that they may only get 30 billable hours a week and $100 starts to look more reasonable.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA