Hi,
Are sheets of gypson board/ drywall installed perpendicular to the trusses?
How about if you’re using fiberglass insulation and strapping? Would you still install the sheets perpendicular?
Wanda
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Replies
Yes. Yes. But why would you do it parallel to the trusses??
Edited 11/24/2008 8:36 pm ET by PenobscotMan
Perpendicular to what ever you are attaching to.
Mike
Small wheel turn by the fire and rod, big wheel turn by the grace of god.
Think of it this way, the beveled edge does not land on a nailing member, the butt end does.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
the beveled edge does not land on a nailing member
Unless it's commercial construiction where the rock is stood up."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
This doesn't sound like commercial. ;)See my work at TedsCarpentry.comBuy Cheap Tools! BuildersTools.net
If you haven't already done so, please update your profile. Since many issues are dependant on the region in which you work, we often look at your profile to see where you are writing from.
since she mentions trusses, this is a ceiling, not a wall.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Right, but I was responding to the statement that tapered edges don't land on framing. That's too broad of a statement. It's like saying "never"."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I admit, I've placed 8 footers vertically when a suspended ceiling was going up. That's the exception to the rule but most commercial hangers will go horizontal. This, most importantly, doesn't require the tapers to get off the stilts. You will, normally, have less lineal footage of joints and you won't have the issue of a variation in wall flatness every 4'. It shows up badly on baseboard, chair rail and crown if the taper has built anything up at the vertical joint. Interior lighting can also highlight vertical joints. It sets up an easy to see pattern. We're talking your ordinary level 3 or 4 tape job, not a level 5.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
This, most importantly, doesn't require the tapers to get off the stilts.
That bring up something I don't think I'm every gonna understand: Why the heck are most tapers under 5'4"??? I'm not kidding--every professional taper I know is 5'4" or under. It's absolutely baffling. Wouldn't it make more sense for short guys to become plumbers or something? Heck of a lot easier for a little feller to crawl under a sink or into 2' high a pipe-space....
I'm 6'1". I can pull my knife down a vertical 8' joint from top to bottom while standing flatfooted on the floor.
I don't even own a pair of stilts....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Dino, you should know why they are vertically challenged! There aren't too many English speaking drywallers here in Maine. They are all from up your way, tabalnac!Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Along those lines, some of the most productive hangers I worked with out here in Ca. were a French Canadian crew.
One of the best partners I had (70's) was an oldtimer who claimed to have played for the Montreal Canadians and flown in the Royal Air Force. How much of his stories were true, I'll never know. The guy could pick up any instrument and play it, had an old accordian and loved to sing. Smoked more pot than he (or I)could afford.
Where have you gone Marcel St. Arnould ?
Be livin' in the past... Mike
Small wheel turn by the fire and rod, big wheel turn by the grace of god.
In 'joual'--our local slang--that's spelled (and pronounced) 'tabarnak'. It's the most common cussword in Quebec French, and is also the reason the 'snowbirds' from Quebec who winter in Mexico are known as 'los tabarnacos'....
But I haven't noticed any overabundance of vertically challenged Quebecois. They seem about the same height as anyone else...three or so inches below my eye level.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
LOL, quit making fun of us ceiling challenged guys!;)I know an electrical crew where the one guy is about 6'4" and the other must be all of 5'2" guess who does the ceiling lights and who installs devices at the baseboard level?Tall guy used to be on a SR crew. He could ALMOST do the nine foot ceilings common here.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
LOL. Never thought of you as particularly ceiling-challenged.
Me, I hate doing gyprock ceilings no matter what. I plain bloody hate it. I'll do almost anything to avoid it. In bathroom and kitchen remods, I 'up-sell' to wood ceilings whenever I can; for basements I tell the HO dire stories about how expensive and messy even the smallest utility repair can be if he doesn't let me install a suspended ceiling....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I don't mind except for the shoulder pain. Too much arthritis now in my shoulders - it kept me awake an extra couple hours last night.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I don't mind except for the shoulder pain. Too much arthritis now in my shoulders - it kept me awake an extra couple hours last night.
I've been unable to lift my left arm above shoulder height with strength since high school, due to a football injury. That usually isn't a problem because the arm is plenty strong in any other position, but it does effect overhead stuff.
The carpenter who gave me my first lesson on how to hang sheetrock on ceilings liked to put the board on his head. Good idea for me too.
When I got into hanging sheetrock as a sub I designed a couple of special horses with plywood platforms on top at just the right height to hold a board against the ceiling on my pumpkin head. Each horse leg has one small step attached, just large enough for the ball of the foot.
The horses are set up in position with two 10' planks on top. The two installers mount the horse scaffold in unison, carrying the 12' board on their outside arm/shoulder. As they arrive on top, they simultaneously transfer the board to their heads, move it into place and begin nailing or screwing immediately.
The method is very efficient. It puts the board directly over the large muscles of the legs while allowing both hands and arms the freedom needed to fasten the board quickly.
I'd like to supply some photos of the horses but they're stored away in NY, out of reach.
Ideally, you hang your gyprock to produce the least possible amount of butt joints. If the room is less than 16' long, and you can get 16' sheets of 'rock into it, hang the sheets parallel with the trusses (or strapping) so that all your joints are tapered joints. It will simplify taping enormously.
If the room is over 16' long--or if you can't get long sheets into it (stairs, corners, narrow hallways)--hang in whatever way works best for your you. Just remember: a tapered joint can be taped and finished in two coats if the taper is good at his job; a butt joint takes a minimum of three coats and usually four.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
foolish men call Justice....
Dinosaur my friend,
Does this question suggest to you that he's capable of hanging 16' boards, on ceilings no less?
Call me old fashioned but I'll happily admit that I've never laid a hand on a 16' or even a 14' for that matter, not on any job ever, going back forty years.
Let the taper deal with hiding the butt joints. That's their special area of expertise.
Edited 11/25/2008 3:51 am by Hudson Valley Carpenter
I've never laid a hand on a 16'
Wimp. Why, back in the day, I could carry 16'-ers up two flights of stairs, alone, and not break a sweat.
Uh, you are talking about 16' metal studs, right?"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Why, back in the day, I could carry 16'-ers up two flights of stairs, alone, and not break a sweat.
HA! That brings one of the main reasons why they aren't commonly used, too difficult to handle and move.
I spent one winter in the Catskills, hanging sheetrock in a series of new, two story apartments. 12'X5/8"FC ceilings, 12'X1/2"walls.
The supplier loaded the upstairs against one bedroom wall, 5/8" on top. Of course I would've prefered to have it stocked in each bedroom but the driver had limited access so we just had to deal with it.
In fact, the G.C. had requested that the framer leave one sheet of exterior sheathing off the upstairs so that the drywall delivery could be boomed through that opening.
So we did all the ceilings first, dragging and carrying those 12's around and through the walls. Same with the 1/2" on the walls.
I'm not saying that this is unusual, just something that the OP and others should keep in mind when considering what length boards to order, where the drywall boom truck will park and which upstairs openings the boards will fit through.
Edited 11/25/2008 10:40 am by Hudson Valley Carpenter
While I don't go back quite as far as you, I agree. I've never hung a board longer than 12' either.
I actually tried hanging some board vetically on walls, on a project some years back....was more hassle than it was worth.
Tapers are paid to hide seems. I've never had a one of 'em request I alter my method, so if it aint broke.....
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
I often have to tape my own work, so I use a drywall lift and 16-footers if that'll avoid butts.If I'm over 16 feet, I lay my butts out to fall halfway between framing members, and recess them.There are several ways to do this. One way is to install blocking between the trusses, 7/8" up from the bottom, then attach a 1x4 where the joint will be, recessing the GWB joint 1/8".Another technique uses a floating piece of wood with its center relieved. I saved a bunch of old 1x5 casing with its back relieved, and it works fine: the GWB edges are bent into the hollow by the screws, and the GWB floats upwards at the joint. This second technique is fast, but since the joint is floating, I use plenty of drywall glue, and tape the joint with Durabond.AitchKay
Edited 11/25/2008 10:21 am ET by AitchKay
Not saying it don't work.....only that I've never, in my 20 some odd years, seen the need.
I wonder though.....what do folks who insist on hiding butt joints do on renovation/restoration projects?
Closing up windows and moving/removing walls makes for a lot of patchwork.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Makes for a lot of patchwork, no kidding.
There comes a time when patching in passes full removal and redrywalling the whole wall or whatever. Knowing that line come from experience.
And patching in so that no one knows unless they sweep the wall with their hand-that's what separates the good reno from the norm.
But you knew that.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
"I wonder though.....what do folks who insist on hiding butt joints do on renovation/restoration projects?"
Easy. We plaster. ;-)
FWIW, I usually try to recess the butt joints per HK's post, or similar, for all ceiling work. For some reason, butt joints really stand out on ceilings.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
I concur. Plaster.Probably the reason butt joints stand out on ceilings is that most rooms have a ceiling light fixture that casts light along the ceiling, thus highlighting those joints.
That amplifies the effect, but Wanda's problems are in the longitudinal seams rather than butts, as I recall.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Thanks for the expert advice.
Wanda
What about a new layer of 1/4" rock laid perpendicularto the existing layer?"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
What about it?This is a ceiling, where you need 1/2" @ 16" OC or 5/8" @ 24oc. 1/4" on any ceiling would wave like Lake Erie on a calm day
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I actually tried hanging some board vetically on walls, on a project some years back....was more hassle than it was worth.
Many years ago, some home builders wanted 8' stand-ups, to avoid butt joints and shadows. However it's much slower that way, both hanging and taping, so that method has disappeared.
I've done a lot of commercial work where 12' stand-ups are the norm. The metal studs are fastened in the bottom track but are left loose in the top track. This allows the drywall guys to center studs to fit each joint where the sheetrock falls.
PIA (sciatica) when your partner is on a ladder, screwing off the top of the last board and you have to muscle a 12' sheet of 5/8"FC up and into place.
Let the taper deal with hiding the butt joints.
Snork.
That's like the framer saying, 'Let the rock hangers deal with putting in blocking.' Or the electrician or plumber saying, 'I ain't gonna bother to flush-set the protection plates; let the rock hangers gouge out the back of the gyprock.' Or the tapers saying, 'Let the trim guys scribe to fit the humps over those friggin' plates; not my problem if those stupid hangers didn't hang it flat....'
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
But butt...joints are just part of the day's work for any taper. It's not like I'm double crossing the guys. ;-)
I didn't mean to imply that; I'm just bitchin' in general about what happens when the trades are so specialised that the guys who hang the rock aren't the guys who tape it.
I guarantee you; if the guy who hung it knew he was gonna have to tape it himself, he'd take more care to make sure it was hung as perfectly as he could do.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I'll agree with that thought.
The best hangers have done some taping and finishing.
Likewise the best framers have done some hanging.
By trade, I'm in commercial drywall and metal studs. The better framers are those who broke in hanging rock first. Mike
Small wheel turn by the fire and rod, big wheel turn by the grace of god.
I know what you mean. I taped a few of my own dry wall hanging jobs, early on, so I learned how important it is to do careful, solid work.
I enjoy taping, as an occasional job. I still have a full set of tools, except for the stilts.
Instead of stilts, I turn two empty five gallon mud buckets upside down. Then I put two screws into the bottom of each bucket, on either side of my boots. Lastly, I use some insulated wire to make inverted stirrups over my boots.
Stilts??
I have transcended the need for stilts....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
You are a great being, no doubt.
Don't know if you saw it or not, but Wanda had another thread where teh guys who did her work left her a mess and diod poor job in general, including hanging some crown upside down with terrible fits and caulk and ....Any7ways, I suspect this Q is related to the complaints she has on that job. I'm agreeing with you that there are situations where it is fine to go either way, but given the quality of the work done on her house, I doubt that the hangers had the knowledge to be able to make that decision.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Hi Piffin, I thought I'd post a ? on drywall so I can be better informed when I go to talk to the drywaller on Friday. I have a guy lined up to take a look at the mess that caveman left on my ceiling. I believe that room measures (25X 16) Not sure on his installation pattern. I might still have some pictures saved on my computer of the ceiling before it was plastered.
Last night I spent sometime online reading and watching videos on drywall installation. All the Videos I watched installed the drywall horizontally on the walls and perpendicular to the trusses on the ceiling.
Is it possible the shadowing effects I am seeing on the ceiling are due to improperly mudded butt joints.... is that fixable. Would a skim coat cover up the defects? Or is it worth it to take all the drywall down and start over?. Any man who is going to paint over bubbles in the tape... my god! YIKES
I'm not even sure this guy applied 3 coats. if you ask me it looks like 2.
Now to sit and wait till Friday. Can't wait to hear what this drywaller tells me. I paid for a quality job. I don't really want to pay for a repair. Besides I have 2 bedrooms with caulk on the drywall .. on the ceiling and wall above and below where the crown was installed. I asked a man who was giving a drywall seminar on how to install drywall what you could do about that. He told me you couldn't scrape it off drywall. So if I can't scrape it off what can I do... I know I can't paint over it. I might have to insist they remove that drywall. I am not paying for slop!
One thing I do know.. 1st coat you can still see the tape 2nd coat you should not be able to see the coat 3rd coat.. takes patience and has to be feathered and sanded out carefully.
Wanda
"Is it possible the shadowing effects I am seeing on the ceiling are due to improperly mudded butt joints.... is that fixable. Would a skim coat cover up the defects?"Yes it is. I thought we had answered that in the other thread before we got all silly.Those high spots you see are from sloppy fast hurried or unskilled work. genaerally skipping the last coats of feathering out.If you have bubbles in the tape, the new guy can cut them out and redo them.
as long as the drywall is screwed up ( no pun intended) properly to the framing, the finish work can normally be saved. as far as the caulk on the surface, that is normally fairly easy to cut, scrape, peel off and patch the surface smooth with a skim coat, IMO
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Don't know if you saw it or not, but Wanda had another thread
Sorry, no, I didn't see that one. My comments were meant as basic, general info about hanging gyprock; that's what I thought her question was seeking.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Normally yes, but when using strapping, you can go either way
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Also remember to stagger sheets so butt joints don't line up on the same stud/joist.
8', 12', or 16' butt joints are not fun to tape.
Yes, always perpendicular. If however you leave the butt joints on the truss, they will rack sooner than later and I mean all of them. The truss will flex due to wood shrinkage, humidity and the difference in temperature causing ALL your butts to crack.
Strongly suggest you use RC-1 Channel on the truss and the hang your rock perpendicular.
-------------
Read this thread fast and noticed someone state that a good finisher can finish a seam with two coats..not for a smooth finish unless the drywall gets textured.
noticed someone state that a good finisher can finish a seam with two coats..not for a smooth finish unless the drywall gets textured
That was me, but I was specifically referring to tapered joints--not butt joints.
IF the 'rock is hung flat and plane; IF the hangers haven't spent half their time repeating the old mantra, "The tape is two inches wide;" IF the mud hasn't been stirred so much it's full of air and soupy...I can tape and finish a tapered joint in two coats to a level four finish.
Oh, yeah--fourth 'IF': IF I'm not tired, or cranky, or pissed off, or having a bad hair day....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Well maybe you can do tapered joints with 2 coats..but it would be too slow and cumbersome. You'd have to have the right mud consistency as you said, a curved knife and then sand it heavily for a level finish..just not worth the effort.
...but it would be too slow and cumbersome. You'd have to have the right mud consistency as you said, a curved knife and then sand it heavily for a level finish..just not worth the effort.
I don't have to sand any more for a two-coat finish than if I mess up and need to put on a third coat. Less, in fact.
The first coat is thin (you can almost see the paper tape thru it) and doesn't quite fill the whole depth of the tapered seam. I use a 6" trowel for that. The second coat fills flush and feathers both sides at the same time. I use an 8" trowel or 12" knife for that, depending on how I feel that day.
Like I said, I don't always get it in two. But it most certainly is worth the effort when it works, as it can get me done a whole day sooner on a small job.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....